James Kims' father writes an op ed piece

[SAR-EMT40]

Spencer Kim writes an article

I find his take on what happened and who is responsible very wrong headed.

I am sorry for his loss but personal responsibility must come into play at some point. The government cannot be responsible for everything. I certainly don't want or need that. If this happens then the government can start telling me its too dangerous for you to do this or that. It already does some of this already. I don’t want my government to be a nanny. I also don't want personal information of mine available to someone over the phone, etc.

I am not sure how much of this we will be able to actually discuss because it may de-facto be political. I hope we can at least hear some thought without it degenerating into something that has to be locked. This is very, very important to the hiking, climbing, and SAR community.

Thoughts, comments?

Keith

 

[Dugan]

I hear you - especially when already-in-place safeguards are not being used.

For example, the article specifically mentions a gate that was in place to "prevent unsuspecting travelers from wandering onto them." And that those responsible for the gate, "failed to perform their duty and lock the gate for the winter."

If this is indeed the case, enforce the regs that are already in place before adding new ones. Chances are, if the first aren't being complied with, the second won't either.

 

[SAR-EMT40]

For example, the article specifically mentions a gate that was in place to "prevent unsuspecting travelers from wandering onto them." And that those responsible for the gate, "failed to perform their duty and lock the gate for the winter."

If this is indeed the case, enforce the regs that are already in place before adding new ones. Chances are, if the first aren't being complied with, the second won't either.

Absolutely. And I don't know if they actually "failed to perform their duty" or not because there were many others who originally said that people sometimes cut off the locks to get illegal access. That also is a violation of federal law as it was reported. Again, enforce the laws on the books.

Keith

 

[TDawg]

Most large scale logging is done during the winter, correct? So, that road would have been open anyway, even though it was winter.

And I highly doubt the map he was using depicted the road as a major throughway. How many people mistake Sandwich Notch Road for I-93, or NH49 for that matter?

 

[vegematic]

Most large scale logging is done during the winter, correct? So, that road would have been open anyway, even though it was winter.

And I highly doubt the map he was using depicted the road as a major throughway. How many people mistake Sandwich Notch Road for I-93, or NH49 for that matter?

I don't know what map the Kims were using but I can say with certainty that at least one of the major online mapping/driving directions services frequently routes drivers over seasonal forest service roads in my area without any mention of their rough and unmaintained nature. The suggested routes involving these roads is typically not even the most direct route. Nevertheless, I know many folks who routinely use these online services for driving directions and do not check any other map source or carry another map in their vehicle. They just follow the online directions.

In Mr. Kim's article he writes that four days passed before the family's absence was noticed. I believe a person is considered missing after 24 hours. That being the case, a search could have been initiated 72 hours earlier had the family shared their travel plans and arranged a check-in time with someone. As hikers we know this is a good idea when we set out on foot in remote areas. How many of us do it when we are traveling remote roads in our cars?

Not knowing all the details and never having traveled in the west I wouldn't presume to criticize this family or the decisions they made. The Kims may have arranged a check-in time with someone who turned out not to be reliable. Maybe their map did have a significant error on it. I don't know. Their story does, however, (re)emphasize some ways each of us can take personal responsibility for our own safety (and simplify our rescue, if needed) in remote areas.
-vegematic

 

[jjmcgo]

Oregonian post-mortem

http://www.oregonlive.com/search/index.ssf?/base/news/116823753415560.xml?oregonian?lctop&coll=7

Please read this before commenting as it has info most of us hadn't seen before. It's a review of the problems besetting the search.
One of the biggest problems, and one unlikely to be repeated, is that the sheriff stepped up to run for another office, his undersheriff was defeated while running for sheriff. The undersheriff still held the position but was off-duty the night the search should have started and refused to go to work, preferring to watch an Oregon football game. Go Ducks!
He left the responsibility for organizing and running the initial search to an unprepared assistant. The state police watched the bungling for a few days and then stepped in. A lot of this should be on his conscience, if he has one.
Also, the route the Kims took from I-5 toward the coast, does appear to be a major road on most maps and the most direct route but it is not. A better road, farther north, veers sharply to the northwest as it approaches the coast and might make a person seek a more direct route. There isn't one.
I disagree with senior Kim about blocking out the media. Prior to the cell-phone engineers' first-of-its-kind locating service, the media planes and copters had an equal likelihood of locating a needle in a haystack. At that point, a span of about 100 miles, north-south, was being searched. I'm not one who believes government works best unmonitored.
Here's a textbook example of why government shouldn't screw over the media: Had the media and LE people worked cooperatively, like at Mt. Hood, the media would put them in a better light. Once they got kicked out by the rude bumblers, they put their resources into reporting the dumbos' personal failures.
Better to keep the media in the cold woods and hand them coffee. There's real value in well thought-out PR.
The SAR volunteers on this board will gag when they read this newspaper account. A real how-not-to and they admit it.
Last, James Kim rolled barrier rocks out of his way to continue on the road to the coast. So, really, who is most at fault? James Kim, unfortunately.

 

[Dugan]

Most large scale logging is done during the winter, correct? So, that road would have been open anyway, even though it was winter.

The practice with the logging roads I've seen is to unlock, drive through, stop, relock. Don't know if/how that applies to a different area or large operation.

 

[DougPaul]

The practice with the logging roads I've seen is to unlock, drive through, stop, relock. Don't know if/how that applies to a different area or large operation.

Don't know what they usually do, but I've seen the gate left open for winter logging in the Whites (the road into Mt Garfield Tr). Don't know how long it was left open and unattended, but it was at least an hour.

Doug

 

[dclynch]

Locked gates

Are locked gates really for our safety? I always thought they were to keep unwanted traffic off forest roads, especially ORVs and snowmobiles, and to prevent calls for towing, etc from stuck regular vehicles.

 

[peakn]

Possibly Warned As Well

I don't know if this is factual or misinformation. My son who lives in Portland, OR told me a local news broadcast indicated that the Kim's had stopped and asked directions, possibly at an Information Ctr and were advised not to take that road. That is not mentioned in the article.
Personally, with family in the car, I think I would have turned around and doubled back towards the nearest civilization long before travelling as far as they did.
Agree completely with SAR-EMT40!
Harry