kayak or canoe?

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coldfeet said:
I'm still paying off my winter toys from my first year of hiking/camping!

Yeah!!!! Welcome to life's dilemma's - I only have time for one job so resources are limited.... I could always work P/T at a gear store, but then I'd have plenty of gear but no Saturdays & Sundays free.
Therefore:
Do I buy a new boat or upgrade my paddle?
save up for new skis and plastic boots,
or save for new snowshoes and double boots,
or finally upgrade the bike with Ultegra parts & buy a trailer for the little one?

I GET SO CONFUSED EACH SEASON AS MY PRIORITIES CHANGE!!!!!!!!
:confused: :confused: :confused:
 
Stan said:
I also have more confidence in taking a kayak places I wouldn't venture with a canoe. I sense that it would take greater skills class II waters in a canoe than a kayak.

Each has pros and cons. Class II water is pretty easy to handle in either (with the appropriate skills). (Without the proper skills, it is fairly easy to screw up in class I.) The differences in the boats only become important around Class IV and higher.

Used to have a Class III open boat (canoe) rating. Ran a few easy IVs and both boat and paddler survived.

Doug
 
After returning my son's rented snowboard the salesman spent app 15 min on explaining some of the kayaks, he also was nice and told me about some local tourguides and rentals. As i left he gave me a brochure (sp) by Wilderness showing their kayaks. They seem so small to carry gear. Thx for input, if you want to hijack this thread for more kayak ideas go ahead, it's interesting to read about those small boats and bushwacking with them.
 
coldfeet said:
As i left he gave me a brochure (sp) by Wilderness showing their kayaks. They seem so small to carry gear.
That they are, although creative packing does allow you to store more gear than you can backpack. Well, depending on the yak.
Thx for input, if you want to hijack this thread for more kayak ideas go ahead, it's interesting to read about those small boats and bushwacking with them.
The biggest problem I have with kayaks is carrying the darn things for any distance. Canoes with a yoke carry so nicely, especially bushwhacking. I'm sure a removable yoke could be made for a kayak, but then you won't be able to see where you are going with your head stuck in the cockpit. Maybe in combo with a knupack? Nah, I think I'll stick with a canoe when I have to portage.

Tony
 
coldfeet said:
....Thx for input, if you want to hijack this thread for more kayak ideas go ahead, it's interesting to read about those small boats and bushwacking with them.
Fair enough -
I paddle 2 kayaks - a 12' Perception Acadia Expedition that I have had for about 8 years now and a 16' Necky Zoar that is 5 years old.

The Zoar has fore & aft bulkhead storage, while the Perception has aft (as well as behind the seat)

Since I am already a backpacker, I can easily fit 2-3 days of food & gear in the Perception, which is a great little (and cheap) boat for paddling smaller lakes, ponds rivers and such (it is also a nice boat for paddling the fulton chain of lakes in the Adirondacks).

For longer trips, I like the Zoar - I am a big guy and it is a big boat. Longer boats go faster and usually hold more gear. The Zoar has a rudder which allows me to paddle straight when winds are blowing from directions other than from the front (Though the rudder slows you down a bit). I find that I usually use my balance and offset the blades in my grip in order to turn or stay straight in heavy winds. I save the rudder for when I am dog tired - Like a weekend of paddling in Lake Ontario/St Lawrence Seaway in a stiff non-stop sidewind.

When I lived near Jersey, a favorite paddle of mine (which is closer to you), was the Delaware River from Milford or Port Jervis to the Delaware Water Gap, taking 2-3 days for the trip. below the DWG are soem rough rapids - not recommmended for paddling.

Back to Boats
There are alternatives to a 2-person kayak without getting a 22 ' tandem such as the Perception America which will hold an adult and a child or dog - Also, I believe Old Town has a similar boat.

I like to paddle the yak and get away from everything - Canoes are fine, I paddled a Mad river as well as a Blue hole for a number of years prior to getting yaks, but I like the sleek smoothness of a yak, the protection of a sprayskirt in the cold and the ability to sit somewhat relaxed with my legs stretched out and my gear being bundled up - That's just me - Others live and die for a canoe.

For boat design, There are many other things to consider - initial and secondary stability, which is related to the amount of chine in your boat (flat bottoms, rounded bottoms and hard angled rounded bottoms - You can look this up on the web), rudder or keel or none at all, length design & materials

Polyethelene is the tupperware of boat material - My Perception is PE. There is also SLP SuperLinear Polyethelene, (The Zoar) which is stonger, more durable and less easily scratched by rocks and grit.
More expensive are Fiberglass, Kevlar and Carbon something or other - These cost a lot more, but for the winsome paddler, are well worth it. I cannot justify them on my budget, but perhaps after my son's college and such is paid, I can splurge.

You will also want a better paddle - A quality paddle really helps on long paddling trips - Especially the newer Kevlar paddles. I prefer wood, but many like Fiberglass. (I would avoid an aluminum or plastic paddle).
There is an old adage - "Go cheap on the boat, but splurge on the paddle" I've always wondered on the boat part, but I truly beleive the paddle part of that saying.

You will need a comfortable PFD (Life jacket). A cheap one will bind in the armpits and shoulders and chafe you on long paddles and ride up.
You will also want a paddle float, bilge pump & sponge. The first 2 are necessities for self rescue. If you decide to paddle in spring and fall cold conditions, you will want a spray skirt and a wetsuit (I wear a shorty).

You will also want to hook up with others. There is the Jersey Shore Sea Kayak Association - They are local to you and have regular Paddles as well as a board where you can ask questions JSSKA . There are also Paddlefests put on by boat dealers and mfg reps. This is a great place to paddle a half dozen boats over a weekend to get a feel for it.
Feel free to PM me for more info.
Good Luck
Rick
 
I have two Perception Keowee kayaks -- tandems that I use with our kids.

Pro: wide, stable, and room in the bow and stern for stuff. Good for solo.
Cons: heavy (65 lbs each), no other room for packing.

I don't know where on LI you are, but in Long Beach is Empire Kayak that has rentals and a dock where you can demo, also Peconic paddler in Suffolk but I have never used them.

After factoring in the cost of the kayak, include a roof rack to carry it, paddles, and lifevests. What I like about the polyethelene kayaks I have is I didn't need to buy special saddles to carry them. The manual said to carry them upside down, right on the rack. I added pipe insulation for padding.

Jim
 
Rick said:
Fair enough -
I paddle 2 kayaks - a 12' Perception Acadia Expedition . . . it is also a nice boat for paddling the fulton chain of lakes in the Adirondacks.
Boy, I don't know. I have always considered the Fulton Chain to be canoe country. But by all means, hike your own hike and paddle your own boat. And thanks for the 'closed' boat perspective.
 
Hey David, I don't know if there are any Canoe specific paddle shows, but you missed a pretty good Kayak show down in Somerset NJ, Paddlesport'05. It was Mar 18th and 19th and I got my Impex (kayak) from them last year. They're primarily a kayak show but they do get canoes, Wenonah is usually there.

As far as portaging mine. Mine is fiberglass and weights about 43lbs. I just stick my arm in the cockpit, grab the coaming and put my PFD or my bilge sponge as a shoulder pad. I can lift mine above my head to cartop it by myself, which is the idea why I spent more money to get a fiberglass boat.

Enjoy the addiction.

Jay
 
Jay H said:
Hey David, I don't know if there are any Canoe specific paddle shows, but you missed a pretty good Kayak show down in Somerset NJ, Paddlesport'05. It was Mar 18th and 19th and I got my Impex (kayak) from them last year. They're primarily a kayak show but they do get canoes, Wenonah is usually there.
Jay
Coming up soon there's a nice mix of kayak and canoes, hundreds of them to try, as well as a number of vendors of other interesting stuff in Inlet NY at Paddlefest.
http://mountainmanoutdoors.com/paddlefest.php
 
Tramper Al said:
Boy, I don't know. I have always considered the Fulton Chain to be canoe country. But by all means, hike your own hike and paddle your own boat. And thanks for the 'closed' boat perspective.
Having done it both ways, there are not a lot of yakkers out there when compared to canoes, but the numbers are growing. The Portage between 5th and 6th is the Kayak Killer :D
 
Somone in Long Island went out yesterday in a canoe, tipped over and is now missing. That's all my wife needed to hear. Hope the kid is ok, air is warm but the water is still cold.
 
No shortage of advice here; sounds like a canoe will be right for what you want to do. One additional word of advice: If you want to paddle with your significant other, buy 2 boats!
 
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