Knee Problems on the return trip

[redcloud]

Hello people,
Still a newbie here.
Yesterday, I took a day off for a hike. I went to Cheshire, MA to the AT crossing on rte. 8, and did the five mile hike up Saddle Ball Mtn. This is part of the AT. Not much views to speak of since the last 3/4 mile was in the clouds and cold mist. Also, the trail was very wet and slippery. I guess nine days of rain will do that!
Anywho, I definately have a problem coming downhill for an extended period. The same thing has happened to me before on other trails. On either knee, I'll start to feel this pain on the outer side of my knee joint, and when it starts, I know that I have injured it and it will be getting worse. Yesterday, I had two to three miles to go to get back and it went out on me again. The rest of my hike was extremely painful, and I had to favor my right knee every step of the way. Yes, I do use hiking poles, and I use them as much as possible. Without them, I think I would have had to crawl down the mountain.
What I am wondering is am I simply over doing it, or is it a technique issue, or what? I put all the weight I can on my poles cause I know what'll happen if I don't, but it ended up happening anyway.
This hike did total about 10 1/2 miles. Maybe, it's just too much for me, I don't know.
One other time I was decending the Hopper on Greylock, and my left knee did the same thing.
This is giving me doubts for future outings, especially if I ever do an extended trip.
Thankyou for any input. I'd appreciate it alot, Eric

 

[Tom Rankin]

Hello people,
Still a newbie here.
Yesterday, I took a day off for a hike. I went to Cheshire, MA to the AT crossing on rte. 8, and did the five mile hike up Saddle Ball Mtn. This is part of the AT. Not much views to speak of since the last 3/4 mile was in the clouds and cold mist. Also, the trail was very wet and slippery. I guess nine days of rain will do that!
Anywho, I definately have a problem coming downhill for an extended period. The same thing has happened to me before on other trails. On either knee, I'll start to feel this pain on the outer side of my knee joint, and when it starts, I know that I have injured it and it will be getting worse. Yesterday, I had two to three miles to go to get back and it went out on me again. The rest of my hike was extremely painful, and I had to favor my right knee every step of the way. Yes, I do use hiking poles, and I use them as much as possible. Without them, I think I would have had to crawl down the mountain.
What I am wondering is am I simply over doing it, or is it a technique issue, or what? I put all the weight I can on my poles cause I know what'll happen if I don't, but it ended up happening anyway.
This hike did total about 10 1/2 miles. Maybe, it's just too much for me, I don't know.
One other time I was decending the Hopper on Greylock, and my left knee did the same thing.
This is giving me doubts for future outings, especially if I ever do an extended trip.
Thankyou for any input. I'd appreciate it alot, Eric

Welcome to the club!

As a fellow sufferer, I went to a sports physical therapist (after a Dr. referral), and she helped me get back on my feet, pardon the pun!

I won't give you specific medical advice, as I am not qualified, but I'd bet there are things that can be done to improve your condition!

 

[Rick]

Hello people,
....On either knee, I'll start to feel this pain on the outer side of my knee joint, and when it starts, I know that I have injured it and it will be getting worse. Yesterday, I had two to three miles to go to get back and it went out on me again.....

Hi Eric,
You stated ...."and it went out on me again." Did you mean it became painful, or truely did it go out on you? I only ask this as I tore my ACL in 1993 and had reconstructive surgery in 1994, but before the surgey I tried weightlifting and running again and my knee "went out" on me several times. So I am wondering if you tore a ligament when you were younger and now have a trick knee?

In any event, I would absolutely go see an Orthopaed and get it checked out completely. It could be due to a wide variety of things all with a different solution.
A solution might be as simple as working your leg muscles to strengthen your quads or hamstrings, or perhaps wearing a small brace. But you really need to get a consult.

You might also take a look at your boots, are they worn badly, whereby the midsole and outer sole are worn perhaps on the outsides, casuing your feet to cant slightly outwards? If it turns out it is a mechanics problem, you might be able to see a podiatrist about inserts for your boots.

Good Luck, I wish you the best, as I know how absultely painful and lmiting a knee injury can be.

 

[Jkrew81]

Message from the cured

Could be tendonidis. You may want to check around to see if the symptoms match what you are saying. I used to get it all the time from being inactive all week then going for a crazy hike on the weekend. It took me about 2 months of painful trips, running 2-3 times a week and alot of stretching before it went away. But the good news is that with time it can go away. The key I found was to exercise till you start to feel the pain then to stop and rest till it goes away which in some cases was a few days.

 

[JohnL]

redcloud,

What does your knee feel like today? Is it as painful as during the hike? Can you go up and down stairs without pain?

I had similar symptoms to yours and my problem was simply a tight muscle that needed to be stretched.

JohnL

 

[redcloud]

Hi Guys,
Back again.
When I say it went out, I meant that I hurt it the same way as I had in the past. And, I have hurt either knee the same way. It is always the outer part of the knee movement, not the knee cap area. Each and every step downhill is very painful. So much so that I actually was stepping backwards sometime cause this way it didn't hurt.
The strange thing is that today, only 12-16 hours later, the majority of the pain is gone. But, I bet if I was hiking again, it would return quickly.
I just bought new Asolo boots at EMS for over $200. These boots are very high quality and felt broken in right away. It is not the boots because I have hurt my other knee the same way before with my Merrills.
It is probably the combination of being 46 years old and not getting out often enough to season myself.
Thanks again, Eric

 

[sugahjohn]

Tom Rankin and Rick seem to have the best advice: See a doctor and let him/her provide a diagnosis and decide on an appropriate course of action.

 

[spaddock]

See a doctor first for sure, maybe two. I'm still going through an injury from August, one doc thought it was tendonitus, now another thinks it might be a stress fracture. And those guys unlike us, have a medical piece of paper hanging on their wall!


-Shayne

 

[David Metsky]

As others have said, see a doctor. It could be tendonitis which many people here have experienced, or it could be a half dozen other things. An MD who understands sports injuries will help you find out what's wrong and what steps to take. Knees are really complex and lots of things can go wrong in there. Don't take advice from random strangers on a message board.

-dave-

 

[Double Bow]

As others have said, see a doctor.

Don't take advice from random strangers on a message board.

So Dave, should he see a doctor or not?

 

[Tom Rankin]

DB, at least he has 3 green squares after his name!

 

[king tut]

I'd have to agree w/ Dave.

That being said i'll add a couple of things. I had my right knee surgically reconstructed back about 9 years ago, torn acl and cartilage. My knees get real cranky on the downhills, not the uphills when i hike. I find that taking a couple of advils or tylenol before descent usually prevent most of the swelling and pain that i would experience in my knees.

Just a guess as far as the knee. If you have pain on the outside it might be the cartilage. If it were the acl, the knee would buckle forward. A torn mcl would buckle your knee side to side. There also an lcl and a pcl, but those get hurt less frequently i believe.

 

[jfb]

It is probably the combination of being 46 years old and not getting out often enough to season myself.

That would be my first guess, although you don't have to be 46 years old to be out of shape for hiking.

Disclaimer: If my guess is wrong and you hurt yourself while hiking downhill, it's your fault.

 

[David Metsky]

So Dave, should he see a doctor or not?

I'm trying to decide if I'm more random than strange...

-dave-

 

[DougPaul]

As others have suggested, get it checked out by a professional. Knees are prone to a variety of problems. Causes can be anywhere from the foot to the hip. Once you know what the problem is, you can look up info on it.

One thing that I was able to do on some trails when my knee started complaining was to back down. This puts most of the strain on the stronger uphill muscles (hip extenders) and on the hip joint. Maybe it can help you. It is easier than you might think if the footing is fairly easy.

General info:

Building up slowly can be a big help--yes this means doing some trivial little milk runs as training. (I used to live near a 200ft high hill--made a great little workout with up to 40lbs on my back. It was a great help for when I visited the mountains.) Exercise during the week becomes more important as you get older. (Weekends only is not enough--you decondition during the week.) You also need to exercise downhill (muscles absorbing energy) as well as uphill (muscles producing energy)--the molecular mechanisms are different. (The small hill walk is perfect for this.) Get a sober book (most are hype heavy) weight lifting book--a good source of info on how to build muscles.

Age generally means that you have to be more careful about conditioning. You may also not bounce back from a big hike as quickly as when you were younger. With adequate preparation and conditioning, one can still do some reasonable hikes.

Doug
Who has had his own knee problems.

 

[coldfeet]

I also have knee problems, check out a few Dr.'s also check out the website called "kneeguru"...good luck, feel better, i'm working on losing weight to help out. I can't do those big long hikes so i'll just stick to the short 7-9 mile hikes..

 

[Mr. X]

redcloud,

What does your knee feel like today? Is it as painful as during the hike? Can you go up and down stairs without pain?

I had similar symptoms to yours and my problem was simply a tight muscle that needed to be stretched.

JohnL

I agree with this, also the tendonitus theory. Also I'd like to point out an observation I've made. I've found that over distances, foot position plays a role in how your knee actally bends. When I get tired, one of my feet tends to point inward a bit. I found that by concentrating on keeping my feet straight forward on decents it helps my knees bend in one direction instead of pushing a dynamic motion.

 

[Neil]

RC,
I'm a stranger on a webforum and I've had a similar problem and I'm a Dr. of Chiropractic who sees a lot of extremity problems.

Without examining you or taking a proper case history the information you give leads me to suspect you have a lateral meniscus problem. I would further suspect that the harm is done on the way up the mountain but the effects felt on the way down.

If walking around on the flats and/or a day or two of no hiking lead to a complete resolution of your symptoms then it is possible that your knee cartilage (meniscus) on the outside (lateral) of your knee gets displaced because of the unidirectional loads applied through the joint during the ascent phase of your hike. It kills on the way down then gradually goes back into place and you forget about the whole thing until the next hike.

Let me know if that sounds like you and I'll send you a bill

 

[redcloud]

Neil,
What you said does sound like me. Today at work, the pain is pretty much gone, although I can tell that I hiked ten miles yesterday.
So we probably got this diagnosed, I'm not paying till I get a resolution!
All kidding aside, the pain yesterday was unreal, and it ruined my return trip.
I'm not sure how to prevent this from happening again. Perhaps those elastic supporters would help?, Along with some drugs?
Thanks, and take care, Eric

RC,
I'm a stranger on a webforum and I've had a similar problem and I'm a Dr. of Chiropractic who sees a lot of extremity problems.

Without examining you or taking a proper case history the information you give leads me to suspect you have a lateral meniscus problem. I would further suspect that the harm is done on the way up the mountain but the effects felt on the way down.

If walking around on the flats and/or a day or two of no hiking lead to a complete resolution of your symptoms then it is possible that your knee cartilage (meniscus) on the outside (lateral) of your knee gets displaced because of the unidirectional loads applied through the joint during the ascent phase of your hike. It kills on the way down then gradually goes back into place and you forget about the whole thing until the next hike.

Let me know if that sounds like you and I'll send you a bill

 

[David Metsky]

All kidding aside, the pain yesterday was unreal, and it ruined my return trip.
I'm not sure how to prevent this from happening again. Perhaps those elastic supporters would help?, Along with some drugs?

There's really no way to diagnose this over the computer. All sorts of things might work, but they also might cause serious damage. For something that caused that much pain, see a professional. Don't try random suggestions with your knees.

Off soapbox,

-dave-