Knots For Hiking

[DougPaul]

Quoted for truth (QFT). Repeatedly pulling ropes around a tree can kill the tree. Don't leave slings, either, they are trash in this context.

Unfortunately, you either leave the sling or injure the tree unless you use a non-tree anchor. (Or maybe you should go back in the summer and retrieve the slings...)

Of course, the rope can get stuck too! Even more trash and you don't have it for the next rappel.

Doug, this is for you: http://www.alpinist.com/doc/web12f/wfeature-dirtbag-diatribes-number-two

It covers the butterfly knot!

Looks good to me. And, of course, anything that refers to a butterfly knot can't be all bad!

Doug

 

[cushetunk]

Looks good to me. And, of course, anything that refers to a butterfly knot can't be all bad!

Sure you read all the way down?

Q: Which knots do I need to know?

A: Clove hitch, overhand, figure eight, clove hitch some more, one-handed clove hitch for style points.

Q: But don't I need to learn the...

A: Nope.

Q: What about tying webbing together?

A: Overhand.

Q: Tying ropes together for rappels?

A: Overhand.

Q: Tying into the middle of a rope on a glacier?

A: Overhand.

Q: But I learned about the alpine butterfly...

A: I learned about a lot of things I didn't need. It's called wasting time on the Internet.

 

[DougPaul]

Sure you read all the way down?

Yes, I did. It is a piece of technical climber's humor, not intended to be taken literally...

Note the introduction:

This article was written with the author's tongue placed firmly in his cheek. It is not meant as a "How To" for beginning climbers, and it assumes a certain level of pre-existing technical knowledge. —Ed.

I don't know the author (Blake Herrington), but I suspect that he is a competent technical climber who knows how and when to use a butterfly...

Doug

 

[jfb]

Thanks for the sites and knot recommendations. I have two specific applications I'm looking for knots for:

1. Check out Chapters four through six of this book. The arm rappel may work for you.

2. Surgeon's knot

 

[DayTrip]

Thanks DougPaul and jfb for the extra detail. I'll read those links.

Tim: I don't know that I would but I figured hiking alone it may be helpful. Last year I did a few trails in December that were seriously steep and icy in a few spots. In at least two circumstances I could not bushwhack around because there was ledge on either side and it was on my descent so "turning around" would involve significant additional walking. I didn't like reaching for evergreen branches and anchoring my feet on such steep ice. It just seemed like having a section of rope to use for added security couldn't hurt. And to clarify again I'm not gonna go bombing down these ledges like a paratrooper coming out of a helicopter. I'm talking using an anchor point for balance or in dire circumstances a controlled butt slide down the trouble.

Naturally these spots that I know of now I would avoid but as I encounter more and more new trails in winter conditions I'd like to be ready for the problem, especially if snow is not deep enough to absorb a fall and I'm bouncing off icy rocks. You've never encountered such a ledge or spot? Do you have any other ice gear you use instead? Any other technique you use? Just trying to think through as many "what if" scenarios as I can when planning these hikes.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

You've never encountered such a ledge or spot? Do you have any other ice gear you use instead? Any other technique you use? Just trying to think through as many "what if" scenarios as I can when planning these hikes.

I've never encountered anything that made me want to have a length of rope. I have generally felt quite safe in my snowshoes, and / or microspikes with and occasional day where crampons were the wiser choice. I have yet to think "Crap, I wish I had a {rope | ice axe}". Doesn't mean it won't or doesn't happen, but in general I stick to the well-used hiking routes in winter. I would not chose a route which required descending something that may be in doubt without first having ascended it. Someone will likely point out that in an emergency I might be forced down such a route.

I have heard a single story of a wanna-be trip leader roping people up on Jefferson once. I got the impression that the story teller thought it a bit ridiculous. Other than that, I am not aware of rope usage in the Whites except by ice climbers.

Tim

 

[DougPaul]

Where do you expect to need to rappel? I can't say I have ever seen a "hiker" rappel anywhere in the Whites on a hiking trail.

There are summer hiking trails that turn into semi-technical routes in winter. Ropes and belays (and rappels on the descent) can be useful. One such route is the Great Gully on Mt Adams. (If you recall, there was a death by falling down the route last winter...) I have also witnessed a fall down a snow slope on Lyons Head trail that would have had a happier ending had the individual been roped. (She was lucky--only minor injuries resulted.)

Also if you have a party member who is a beginner or who is known to be prone to falling a rope may be useful.

In both cases, one should be trained in the use of the rope (eg be a technical climber).

Doug

 

[DougPaul]

Naturally these spots that I know of now I would avoid but as I encounter more and more new trails in winter conditions I'd like to be ready for the problem, especially if snow is not deep enough to absorb a fall and I'm bouncing off icy rocks. You've never encountered such a ledge or spot? Do you have any other ice gear you use instead? Any other technique you use? Just trying to think through as many "what if" scenarios as I can when planning these hikes.

My guess is that at this point, you are better off becoming proficient and comfortable on mountaineering snowshoes and crampons and on the use of an ice axe rather than worrying about how to use a rope.

Doug

 

[jfb]

Just trying to think through as many "what if" scenarios as I can when planning these hikes.

You should get a copy of "Accidents in North American Mountaineering" to read about "what if" scenarios that actually have happened.

 

[kaseri]

In my opinion everyone should know the following knots

1) Figure 8 (on a bite & follow through)
2) Alpine Butterfly
3) Water Knot
4) Fishermans Knot (double & triple, I prefer triple)
5) Clove Hitch
6) Prusik
7) Mountaineers Coil
8) Butterfly Coil

One should also know how to rig an emergency harness out of a length of rope or tubular webbing. There are also various methods of rigging a rope to a natural anchor which will allow easy & complete retrieval of the rope and all your hardware from the end of the rope. These methods require an intimate knowledge of the above knots. Using the wrong knot or putting weight on the wrong part of the rope will completely release the rigging and you will fall.

P.S. Carry two locking carabiners.