"Leave the Snow Shoes in the Car"???

[pks4000]

As I sit here recouperating from an injury I am in awe of the lack of mountaineering awareness from the "new crowds" on the mountains.

You are not on a white stair climber!

All reports now seem to say there are many climbers out particularly on "cherry days".

What prompted this thread was the Lions Head Trip report that stated that the snow conditions were such that he postholed alternating with consolidated snow on the summet cone. Then amazingly said: Leave the snow shoes in the car. Trip report signed by Rambo something.

Hey Rambo. Whenever you go above timberline you carry snow shoes. Not just on bad days
WHY?
Justin Case (you all know Justin) you loose the trail on the way down..... for instance.

Figure out the consequences of postholing and getting lost and you will be more than a tourist out there.

Learn first then climb

Climb onward

 

[dug]

Meh, I don't take my snowshoes all the time. Whatevah.

 

[paul ron]

Many people think if the trail is packed enough to support em, they don't need snowshoes. Get off trail and you're up to your neck in snow... then what... 911?

It always bothers me to see barebooters tearing up the trails or with their micro spikes thinking they aren't postholing either. Once the trail gets torn up it becomes rock salt and has absolutely no traction and can't consolidate ever again. Most times that tearing up is in the steeps where it gets critical, because that is where they do the most damage slipn n sliden. This is where a pair of snowshoes would have had superior traction n not tear up the trial making rutts.

 

[NewHampshire]

A wise, beer swillin', headbanging, Irish ice rat once said it best when, to paraphrase, he wrote "dealing with postholes is part of winter hiking. You don't like it stay home." I pretty much carry my shoes with me all the time, but if I see someone postholing I don't start tearing them a new arsehole. I could care less. I ain't there daddy, they ain't my kid. They are grown adults, and can decide for themselves what to do. Don't like postholes? Go break out an alternate route if available. If we are talking gripes I hate seeing these "anyone been on xxx trail?". Grab the shoes, get out there, and if it ain't broken out break it. If it is, hey enjoy. I said it before that we as hikers have become complacent with the fact winter hiking is so en vouge that a trail we want to use is probably broken out more often than not. Realize that someone has to break it out, and at some point I feel everyone should chip in their part.....

Brian

 

[Bill and Sheep]

I'm generally pretty laid back when it comes to imposing hiking rules on others but seeing a nicely tracked trail torn to pieces on a day like yesterday sure makes me sad. Coming down Falling Waters, most people were barebooting and the trail was getting shredded. It wasn't a big deal to use it yesterday when the snow was soft but once that trail refreezes, it's going to be an ankle twisting moonscape that won't be any fun for anyone.

I do agree that part of winer hiking is dealing with whatever conditions you find but I think we all have a responsibility to not make the trail worse than it was before we set foot upon it.

 

[TrishandAlex]

A wise, beer swillin', headbanging, Irish ice rat once said it best when, to paraphrase, he wrote "dealing with postholes is part of winter hiking. You don't like it stay home." I pretty much carry my shoes with me all the time, but if I see someone postholing I don't start tearing them a new arsehole. I could care less. I ain't there daddy, they ain't my kid. They are grown adults, and can decide for themselves what to do. Don't like postholes? Go break out an alternate route if available. /QUOTE]

I agree with everything Brian wrote.

We always carry snowshoes, but I only use them if there's a danger of postholing. By postholing, I mean sinking into the snow past an inch or two (leaving more than a footprint).

One main reason I try NOT to wear the shoes is because the veins in my left leg, from calf to groin, are damaged. Wearing the shoe causes that leg to cramp in about half an hour, and it's rough going from there. Going down ain't so bad, but going up is difficult. Can I suffer through it? Yes. Am I going to just to keep the trail perfectly groomed for the snowshoe police? No.

Some people HATE wearing snowshoes. Are they not allowed to enjoy winter hiking, just because they don't leave the trail looking just the way we want it?

During the summer time, there are all kinds of obstacles -- rocks, roots, etc. No one expects trail maintainers to clear all that out of there just so a hiker can have a nice flat, smooth trail...guess I don't see what all the fuss is about if, during the winter, folks have to be careful with their footing, just as they'd have to during the summer/fall.

 

[paul ron]

SO let me get this straight...

The snowshoers broke out a trail, the the bare booters come n trash it then tell the snowshoers if they don't like it go break out another trail?

Sheesh, lousey attitude. Got dam kids!

I see why these things escalate into laws, no consideration for others. ME ME ME ME.

 

[TrishandAlex]

SO let me get this straight...

The snowshoers broke out a trail, the the bare booters come n trash it then tell the snowshoers if they don't like it go break out another trail?

Sheesh, lousey attitude. Got dam kids!

I see why these things escalate into laws, no consideration for others. ME ME ME ME.

These trails are for everyone, right? Barebooters, folks on crampons, and snowshoers alike. Not everyone cares all that much about postholes.

I've been on showshoes in badly postholed territory. I just watch my step, like I do when wearing hiking boots on rocky trails. Not a big deal.

One can turn that "ME ME ME ME" accusation right around and say that those who insist on perfectly smooth trails are not being considerate of those who enjoy the mountains but who do NOT enjoy wearing snowshoes. Just sayin'.

 

[NewHampshire]

SO let me get this straight...

The snowshoers broke out a trail, the the bare booters come n trash it then tell the snowshoers if they don't like it go break out another trail?

Sheesh, lousey attitude. Got dam kids!

I see why these things escalate into laws, no consideration for others. ME ME ME ME.

You take it however you want. I ain't a postholer. I wear my shoes when I need to (but more because I find it physically counter productive to posthole than out of any perceived ettiquet), microspikes or crampons as well. So this is not a postholer telling you to go break out your own trail, this is a snowshoer telling you to. But if I see someone postholing I am telling you I just don't give a crap. To each their own. I watch my step if need be. I suppose we should all carry rifles while hiking so that we can shoot any moose we see since they are VERY inconsiderate postholers. The point I was making is that if ya don't like postholes then you are welcome to find your own unsullied route up.

I guess what I am trying to say is quit yer bitchin' and enjoy yourself.

Brian

 

[ColdRiverRun]

I've been on showshoes in badly postholed territory. I just watch my step, like I do when wearing hiking boots on rocky trails.

How fast are you going with your boots in summer compared to a skier going down hill or a person simply sliding on the snow and ice?

A friend encountered a few guys post holing with crampons on a soft steep trail they just broke out a few hours before, she asked, "why would you do that"? They said they were looking for some adventure. She simply said can't do that to the side of the trail? They didn't have much to say.

I believe around 12 years old most people go through the stages of learning referred to as "the role of the other" where you start thinking from others point of view. It seems to get more common over the years for people to skip this step and focus on the "ME ME ME" as someone put it, IMO.

I hike in the ADK on a regular bases where we have some rules in place. They are horribly written in my opinion and then verbally enforced in a bad manner at times. I follow simple rules of my own: I'll wear (micros or bareboot) until I punch through once or think I may begin to or I believe snowshoes are no longer the proper traction due to rock and ice. Ice hard or icy post holes are very dangerous to others and I use simply consideration. I don't scorn anyone although I might say why I prefer it if the snow is soft and if I'm already having a conversation with them.

 

[TrishandAlex]

I follow simple rules of my own: I'll wear (micros or bareboot) until I punch through once or think I may begin to or I believe snowshoes are no longer the proper traction due to rock and ice. Ice hard or icy post holes are very dangerous to others and I use simply consideration. I don't scorn anyone although I might say why I prefer it if the snow is soft and if I'm already having a conversation with them.

I agree with this, and I do the same. I put mine on if I punch through once, as you do. I will leave a shallow footprint, though.

I just don't agree with folks when they become completely irate over postholers. The trails are for everyone, I figure those without snowshoes have just as much of a right to be out there as those with snowshoes.

 

[grouseking]

Live free, or die.

Kidding aside, clocking in at 290 pounds, I posthole no matter what...crampons, microspikes, bare boot, or snow shoes! I don't see the big deal with postholing. I've been thru the less than ideal conditions without snowshoes, and it never seemed all that bad. Actually, if I put the snowshoes on over the postholes...it helped for me to sail right over them...so no need to complain! It saves on ankle twisting, thats for sure. Whenever I see the mangled trail conditions, I just see it as another challenge. I mean, climbing mountains isn't supposed to be easy, is it??

grouseking

 

[ColdRiverRun]

One main reason I try NOT to wear the shoes is because the veins in my left leg, from calf to groin, are damaged. Wearing the shoe causes that leg to cramp in about half an hour, and it's rough going from there. Going down ain't so bad, but going up is difficult.

This is a new one for me. So you think it's the shape of the snowshoe or what?

I think I understand the physical condition your describing so maybe I can suggest a different reason. You said you only switch to snowshoes when you need to. That suggest that the snow is either getting soft or you are in fact breaking trail. During those conditions you are physically working much harder going uphill which would lead to a higher heart rate and cause possible cramping in areas where you have bad circulation.

Wouldn't that be more reasonable than blaming it on snowshoes? If heavy boots or crampons straps don't bother you as much in other conditions I'm having a hard time believing it is the actually shape of a snowshoe causing this circulatory problem.

 

[NewHampshire]

so we are high on beaver brook trail today headed for the moose..must be 10-12 feet of snow up there....holy crap is it tough going....we meet 2 dudes without snowshoes postholin up to the waist....i said "you forgot your snow shoes boys"...ya we know there in the car....but we got our ice axe....wtf...have a nice day...

Forget the snowshoes and ice axe, what we want to know is did they have the ESSENTIAL piece of gear...BEER!

Brian

 

[Paradox]

One main reason I try NOT to wear the shoes is because the veins in my left leg, from calf to groin, are damaged. Wearing the shoe causes that leg to cramp in about half an hour, and it's rough going from there. Going down ain't so bad, but going up is difficult. Can I suffer through it? Yes. Am I going to just to keep the trail perfectly groomed for the snowshoe police? No.

I have no problems with the current footwear I am using now. That was not always the case. I was once very uncomfortable in snowshoes with the boots I was using. I am now much more comfortable with my current set of North Face boots I am wearing. But even now, I must readjust the bindings on my MSR's when I begin the descent. It ended up being a simple adjustment of loosening the top binding strap and tightening the strap across my toes.

I am not endorsing any particular brand here but I do believe that your system of boots/bindings/snowshoes is adding considerably to the problem that you have. What I am saying is that it may not be a matter of snowshoes, YES versus NO. A simple solution is likely to be the answer, but sometimes that simple solution may take a while to find through trial and error. Postholes can hurt those that follow me, that is why I feel better that I have found a solution to my foot pain.

 

[Remix]

This thread appears once a year-- I am surprised it took so long.

Anyhow, if you are hiking on trail that is skied, please have extra consideration for those of us whose tendons are becoming brittle.

Thanks.

 

[TrishandAlex]

This is a new one for me. So you think it's the shape of the snowshoe or what?

I think I understand the physical condition your describing so maybe I can suggest a different reason. You said you only switch to snowshoes when you need to. That suggest that the snow is either getting soft or you are in fact breaking trail. During those conditions you are physically working much harder going uphill which would lead to a higher heart rate and cause possible cramping in areas where you have bad circulation.

Yes, it's a circulation issue. The shoes do feel heavy on that particular leg.

I have MSRs, and those are the only ones I've ever had, so maybe it is the shape? I've assumed it is the weight, since they feel heavy on that particular foot. My boots are fine (Sorels) and adhere to the shape of my foot, while the snowshoes don't. I'm moving the weight differently with snowshoe than I am with boots, due to the fact that the snowshoes are much wider than my actual foot (as they should be, since they're snowshoes). I have adjusted the straps every which way, but the problem persists.

ETA: To clarify -- I DO put on snowshoes after I've postholed twice. I'm not endorsing postholing, just shrugging at those who become overly incensed at the issue.

 

[TrishandAlex]

This thread appears once a year-- I am surprised it took so long.

Anyhow, if you are hiking on trail that is skied, please have extra consideration for those of us whose tendons are becoming brittle.

Thanks.

This brings up a good question -- which trails are commonly skied? Most of the hiking trails I've been on don't seem condusive to skiing. But I'm not a skier, so I don't have any real sense of what is considered ski-able.

 

[Paradox]

...
Yeah every year the same conversation.. time for a lock down.

This information is not written in stone, but rather ice and snow. Every spring the knowledge fades faster than my short term memory. It goes away with warm weather and a new group of hikers that do not have the benefit of our experience. It will continue on, as long as we have new hikers, equipment, and desire. It's a good thing I wrote this down, or I would have forgotten it already.

 

[TrishandAlex]

I see you're getting a bit moist under the collar, must be the guilt. Why not break out your own trail as a barebooter?.. .or is it too hard for ya mountain man? Need the snowshoers to do that for ya? Where is the adventure in trashing a nice trail when you can be ass high in snow, a real man's adventure n occomplishment? I'm just sayin...

Yeah every year the same conversation.. time for a lock down.

Nah, my response was purely academic. There are very few things I get "moist under the collar" over...unlike some...

You might want to read entire posts before responding. As I've already written, I do carry snowshoes, and I wear them when needed. I've even -- gasp -- broken out trail in snowshoes -- with barebooters right behind me. Did I care? No.