Legitimate Trail Times

[BISCUT]

I have 3 trips left in my NH4K endeavor. I was wondering if there is a specific place to find legitimate average times for a hike online. I have Isolation, Bonds, and Owl head to go. I'm usually on target or a little quicker for the WMNF Guide Book ascent but tend to fly on the decent. I wanted to see what I should expect for day trip pack weight times for my remaining 3.

I see many tip reports and some are great at listing their time while others don't mention. I'ts not a race for me but I am trying to do these on day trips with a looong road trip before hitting the trail. I've searched a lot of google but I think I'm missing something.

 

[JustJoe]

Click on what ever mountain you want. Gives description, and times for different routes.

http://home.earthlink.net/~ellozy/nh-4000-footers.html

Pretty sure (not possitive) his times are less than AMC book times.

 

[Mohamed Ellozy]

Apart from any typos or calculation errors they are AMC book times.

 

[jniehof]

The first time I did Owl's Head, it took me fourteen hours. The second time, it took me eight. With that much range for a single person, I don't think getting a bunch of times from people all over the internet is going to help much.

You know how you normally do relative to book (I presume). Then apply appropriate modifiers. Owl's Head tends to be faster than other hikes of that distance and elevation, although it depends a lot on how comfortable you are descending the slide. Isolation is probably about par although the footing does seem to be getting a bit worse, so if you're particularly sensitive to that it may slow you. Bonds are sometimes a little on the fast side but the weather exposure also has some serious pace implications as the day moves away from bluebird.

Beating book by more on descent than on ascent is fairly rare. The footing is so often a bigger pace limiter than the ability to put out energy. Remember that round-trip book time isn't just double the one-way book time...

 

[nartreb]

Somebody on another forum had an interesting idea: you could use the fastest known time on a hike as your basis for comparison. Not only can you get a ranking of which hikes are most difficult (not just distance and elevation, but also footing), but you might find that you consistently take, say, three times as long as the FKT. I've never tried applying this idea, and I doubt there are enough hikes with known FKTs to make this useful for most people, but I thought it was worth sharing. Apparently, track & field athletes do this kind of comparison frequently.

 

[Grey J]

I am usually pretty close to average book time, sometimes faster descending if its not really steep and footing is good. But see, there are always these qualifiers. What's the weather like that day? Traveling solo or with one other hiker or in a group? It took me 11:45 to do Owls Head solo a few weeks ago. I was super careful on the slide and took my time. How many photos are you taking? That can take up a lot of time especially on a spectacular summit like Bondcliff.

 

[DayTrip]

I'm like you Biscut, I do 99% of my hikes as day trips, driving 3-4 hours to hit the trail head and doing the same heading home. I don't find this impacts my times at all (well, not counting the year the Bruins won the Stanley Cup and I did several hikes a bit hung over after some pretty short nights. ). I actually find the drive is a major opportunity to get fully hydrated and eat plenty so I am ready to roll when I hit the trail head.

As far as times I've tried a variety of ways to calculate times, up to and including some elaborate spreadsheets that had adjustments for vertical ascent, etc. At the end of the day I find the AMC Guide times and my relative performance to these times the best metric. I'm pretty consistent with how often I stop and for how long, number of photos I take, etc so I know on easy trails I'm 25-30% faster than the Guide and on super steep, beat down hikes like a Huntington Ravine or a Six Husbands I'm going to be at or above Guide time. I think any system to base my times against other people's times would be flawed at best and likely totally useless. Too many variables. The AMC Guide seems to take into account roughness of footing, ascent, etc pretty well so that is what I've gone back to using as a benchmark. I use the same listed Guide down for calculating ascents and descents because I tend to be cautious coming down on rougher trails.

 

[jniehof]

The AMC Guide seems to take into account roughness of footing, ascent, etc pretty well

Not in the book time. It is 30 minutes per mile, 30 minutes per 1000' of up. The climb is determined by the WMG editor counting contour lines on the topo. No corrections for stream crossings, poor footing, semi-technical sections, etc. A 1000' sheer vertical cliff has a round-trip book time of 30 minutes (30 minutes up, zero down.)

Mohamed's FAQ is appropriate here.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

The most accurate determination is your historical time, relative to book time. There are, as pointed out above, some routes that will be faster for most, or slower for most, because footing or grades are easier than (or harder than) average. Rougher footing can be less of a problem in winter when a trail is broken out and therefore faster. Lots of factors to consider.

Tim

 

[DayTrip]

Not in the book time. It is 30 minutes per mile, 30 minutes per 1000' of up. The climb is determined by the WMG editor counting contour lines on the topo. No corrections for stream crossings, poor footing, semi-technical sections, etc. A 1000' sheer vertical cliff has a round-trip book time of 30 minutes (30 minutes up, zero down.)

Mohamed's FAQ is appropriate here.

I am aware of that formula but the AMC Guide times still seem to have additional criteria taken into account. As an example:

Lincoln Woods Trail (flat, easy piece of cake): From Trailhead to Osseo Trail junction is 1.4 miles, 125' ascent and 45 minutes in AMC Guide

The Cornice (much rougher with PUD): From Castle Trail junction to Caps Ridge Trail junction is 1.3 miles, 100' ascent and 1 hour 10 minutes in AMC Guide

Shorter, less climbing and much rougher and there seems to be extra time included for it in Guide. If times are purely distance and elevation this should not be the case. What am I missing? Is the up and down ascent used versus nominal value. i.e if you start at elevation of 1000, descend to 800 and then climb to 1100 is AMC Guide using 100' or 300' in their time estimate? Elevation gains in Guide appear to be the nominal gains so that extra time has to be coming from something else. I can think of many other similar comparisons with trails I've done.

 

[DayTrip]

I am aware of that formula but the AMC Guide times still seem to have additional criteria taken into account. As an example:

Lincoln Woods Trail (flat, easy piece of cake): From Trailhead to Osseo Trail junction is 1.4 miles, 125' ascent and 45 minutes in AMC Guide

The Cornice (much rougher with PUD): From Castle Trail junction to Caps Ridge Trail junction is 1.3 miles, 100' ascent and 1 hour 10 minutes in AMC Guide

Shorter, less climbing and much rougher and there seems to be extra time included for it in Guide. If times are purely distance and elevation this should not be the case. What am I missing? Is the up and down ascent used versus nominal value. i.e if you start at elevation of 1000, descend to 800 and then climb to 1100 is AMC Guide using 100' or 300' in their time estimate? Elevation gains in Guide appear to be the nominal gains so that extra time has to be coming from something else. I can think of many other similar comparisons with trails I've done.

My bad on this one. It is 0.7 miles, 50' and 25 minutes for Cornice example mentioned above. Used the wrong line.

 

[JustJoe]

Apart from any typos or calculation errors they are AMC book times.

I stand corrected. I thought I'd compared your times to AMC's and found them to be a bit less. Thanks for clearing that up. And I love the site. Have referred to it many times.

 

[Grey J]

The most accurate determination is your historical time, relative to book time.

Tim

That's probably the best advice you'll get relative to times.

Another factor on Owl's Head is the 2 major brook crossings. If water is low and they are rock hops, that saves time. Some people don't mind wet feet and splash across. I chose to change shoes 3x and that probably cost me 15 minutes each time but the comfort was worth it for me.

 

[1SlowHiker]

I have 3 trips left in my NH4K endeavor. I was wondering if there is a specific place to find legitimate average times for a hike online. I have Isolation, Bonds, and Owl head to go. I'm usually on target or a little quicker for the WMNF Guide Book ascent but tend to fly on the decent. I wanted to see what I should expect for day trip pack weight times for my remaining 3.

I see many tip reports and some are great at listing their time while others don't mention. I'ts not a race for me but I am trying to do these on day trips with a looong road trip before hitting the trail. I've searched a lot of google but I think I'm missing something.

If your looking for more data points I did it in 12.5 hrs moving time 14 hrs total time.
ratio of moving time to book was 1.1, back then I typically did 1.3 to 1.5 times book. The long flat LW trail is what lowered my overall time time. My slowest is always going up, I hold my own on down and level. So if you typically meat or beat book , you'll probably beat it by quit a bit. have you checked wikiloc for owlhead tracks,you could probably get a fe more data points (just make sure they aren't winter hikes)

 

[1SlowHiker]

Bicuit,
I also do many long day drive up and drive back from RI. but for this one a caught a few hrs of sleep at Hancock campground (1 mile from TH). 2d time (winter) I just grabbed a few hours at the LW TH (running water and flushtoilets).
This is a perfect hike for starting before sunrise even if you don't typically hike by headlight. The first three miles on LWT (~1 hr) could be done blindfolded.

 

[TJsName]

I have 3 trips left in my NH4K endeavor. I was wondering if there is a specific place to find legitimate average times for a hike online. I have Isolation, Bonds, and Owl head to go. I'm usually on target or a little quicker for the WMNF Guide Book ascent but tend to fly on the decent. I wanted to see what I should expect for day trip pack weight times for my remaining 3.

I see many tip reports and some are great at listing their time while others don't mention. I'ts not a race for me but I am trying to do these on day trips with a looong road trip before hitting the trail. I've searched a lot of google but I think I'm missing something.

When it comes to Owl's Head, you'll want to consider the crossing if you want to stick to the trailed route. I know a rule of thumb is if the Pemi Gauge at Lincoln Woods is above 800/900, then the crossings can be difficult, in which case you might want to consider waiting, or taking either the Black Pond or Fisherman's Bushwhack to avoid the big crossings. Those Black Pond Bushwhack does save distance too, so it can be faster if you're confident navigating off-trail. There aren't book times for these stretches, so you might want to poke around for trip reports/GPS tracks to see how fast people can do it.

 

[Raymond]

I have recently climbed each of those mountains for the third time.

For Owl’s Head, in July, I used the Franconia Falls bushwhack heading out (for the second time) and the Black Pond bushwhack heading back (for the first time in either direction). It took me about 8¾ hours all together.

For The Bonds, in August, it was an out-and-back from Lincoln Woods for the second time. It took me about 11¼ hours.

For Isolation, also in August, it is a little complicated. I went up Glen Boulder Trail from Glen Ellis Falls and reached the summit in a little more than 3½ hours. I joined with two New Yorkers, though, which probably kept me moving faster than I might have had I been on my own. We all hiked out via Rocky Branch Trail, where the man, Kent, ran back up Route 16 to get his car, while the woman, Melissa, stayed at the Rocky Branch parking lot. I walked up the road until Kent picked me up and brought me back to my car before heading back to get Melissa. So the exact length of the hike had I not been given a ride is unknown. But if it had taken me another half hour to get back to my car, the total length of the hike would have been 8½ hours.

I should probably mention that I am 58 years of age.

 

[BISCUT]

Definitely are a lot of variables. The website is fantastic. All right at your finger tips. I thought I might ger a response or too, but 12! I'm guessing many of you have been through the same questions.

Thanks for the info.

 

[BISCUT]

I have recently climbed each of those mountains for the third time.

For Owl’s Head, in July, I used the Franconia Falls bushwhack heading out (for the second time) and the Black Pond bushwhack heading back (for the first time in either direction). It took me about 8¾ hours all together.

For The Bonds, in August, it was an out-and-back from Lincoln Woods for the second time. It took me about 11¼ hours.

For Isolation, also in August, it is a little complicated. I went up Glen Boulder Trail from Glen Ellis Falls and reached the summit in a little more than 3½ hours. I joined with two New Yorkers, though, which probably kept me moving faster than I might have had I been on my own. We all hiked out via Rocky Branch Trail, where the man, Kent, ran back up Route 16 to get his car, while the woman, Melissa, stayed at the Rocky Branch parking lot. I walked up the road until Kent picked me up and brought me back to my car before heading back to get Melissa. So the exact length of the hike had I not been given a ride is unknown. But if it had taken me another half hour to get back to my car, the total length of the hike would have been 8½ hours.

I should probably mention that I am 58 years of age.

Raymond, You are my kinda 58 year old! I expect to be the same way in 15 years!!

 

[Remix]

While Owl's Head keeps being indirectly discussed, may I ask a naive question?
(Its naive because there are so many expert bushwhackers on here, and the question has not come up afaik)

Is there a way to continue NNE off of the ridge, and bushwhack to 13 Falls. The topos show a more gentle slope than the climb.