Lnt

[Neil]

All this toilet talk. Let me share. While on a canoe trip in Kébek (Quebec) I was pinching a loaf and the exact second that my host hit the turf a fly landed thereon. That was ok. But then that fly hunkered down and slowly and deliberately squirted a tiny little squiggly white thing out of its pointy rear end. That too was ok. Then the little squigglies (by now there were sibs) found tiny little crevices in my log and took nosedives for the centre of their new-found universe. This was a clear case of the food chain in action. Just think, had we buried, or zip-locked our digestive tubes' effluvium we would have deprived the ecosystem of all those valuable high energy molecules. And then where would we be today?

 

[Jaytrek57]

Not to make a huge deal out of it, BUT....

There are places in the outdoors (ecosystems) that you have to (well required to) pack YOUR poop out.

Deserts, big wall climbs, etc..

While no expert, I believe burying YOUR poop in a cathole correctly, actually speeds up the "biodegrade" factor.

Peace.

 

[DougPaul]

While no expert, I believe burying YOUR poop in a cathole correctly, actually speeds up the "biodegrade" factor.

Burying also inhibits runoff in the next rain.

Mixing with soil speeds up the degradation even more.

And the rationale for carrying out the TP is that animals will dig it up if buried.

Doug

 

[Nessmuk]

Not to make a huge deal out of it, BUT....

There are places in the outdoors (ecosystems) that you have to (well required to) pack YOUR poop out.

Deserts, big wall climbs, etc..

While no expert, I believe burying YOUR poop in a cathole correctly, actually speeds up the "biodegrade" factor.

Peace.

You have to realize that the LNT movement (pardon the pun) started and is headquartered in the western states, where environmental factors are a bit different than most of the moist eastern woodlands. Many of the LNT guidelines (especially the early literature) regarding human waste are geared for dryer conditions, and in some areas recommend packing it out or even the rock smear solar UV exposure technique, otherwise it would just dessicate as a lump and not decompose into the environment, whether buried or not. That is not the case here in the east where we have all those damp loving microbes living in the organic soil layer to work on quickly decomposing the material.

And yes, human waste is far more dangerous to humans than other animal's waste because whatever diseases are present are most easily contracted by the same species as the one who left it.

 

[Neil]

In the book,"How to $hit in the woods" there is a long and detailed chapter devoted to special containers for packing out faeces. These thing exist and people use them. Whitewater touring companies for instance.

In the same book the author states that mixing thoroughly and bringing as much soil and hence organisms into contact with the stool hastens its breakdown.

Last week I sent an e-mail to the Dept. of Water, a section of the DEC, requesting information on water testing results in the ADKs. So far, no reply. I'll post the results or a link in due course.

 

[Warren]

One place where carrying out your solid waste can be appropriate in the NE is in the winter. Can't bury it and so it becomes part of the run off during the spring melt.

In terms of the western/eastern split one thing i've noticed is the idea of bushwacking. Those I've talked to who were brought into the woods in west tend to view bushwacking as being very anti LNT. No amount of talking about the difference in growing seasons, vegetation and elevation has gotten me any amount of traction on this. A few have declared it to be illegal, not willing to even go so far as to confirm if it is or not.

Perhaps in an effort to deliver a clear consistent message LNT principals are not taking into account such differences in region and season?

 

[VFTTop'r]

Sorry, but there's no way you'd convince me to pack it out!!! It's just extreme/radical LNT ideas.

I wonder what Darby Field would think of the idea?

 

[Jasonst]

Sorry, but there's no way you'd convince me to pack it out!!! It's just extreme/radical LNT ideas.

I wonder what Darby Field would think of the idea?

Perhaps you could attempt to "go" in one of those flexi Nalgene's and pack it out that way. Good luck cleaning it out though...

 

[Skyclimber]

Perhaps you could attempt to "go" in one of those flexi Nalgene's and pack it out that way. Good luck cleaning it out though...

You mean Throwing It Out! Who in their right mind would use it again to carry their water in it and drink from it? Yuck! Sure not ME!

 

[dr_wu002]

Perhaps someone can follow up on this. If I'm not mistaken human faeces are a very important source of Giardia propogation and were it not for our offerings the filter companies might not be in business. I'm certainly not advocating that we use our bear cannisters in the manner suggested by Dr. Wu (Dr. Whew?) but:

Hell, I started bringing my bear canister to work to crap in. I want to experience the feeling of nature while I'm in my cube as well!

-Dr. Wu

 

[Warren]

Sorry, but there's no way you'd convince me to pack it out!!! It's just extreme/radical LNT ideas.

I wonder what Darby Field would think of the idea?

I don't know about extreme or radical. Crapping it the snow and leaving it there is very close to just crapping on the ground and leaving it there. I've witnessed the remains of such a deposit left next to a lean to about 50' from a lake. Changed my mind.

And I do despise having to pack such stuff out so I when I plan a winter trip I make sure that if I'm not camping at an outhoused area I use them as I pass them. I also try to pack a wag bag in the winter as well.

Any hiker from Darby's era would probably view it as laughable but the numbers weren't the same in the backcountry as they are today. I've read posts of folks seeing such deposits above tree line in the Whites come spring on this board.

 

[afka_bob]

I wonder what Darby Field would think of the idea?

Just tell them you hopped off an airplane, jumped in the rental car and drove 75mph up the Interstate to get there. Then see if he still wants to talk scatology.

Times and traffic patterns change, but I don't know when it ever was fashionable to not be somewhat careful about where you did your business.

And Darby might have a notion or two that you might find shocking. Then again, maybe not.

 

[sapblatt]

Hell, I started bringing my bear canister to work to crap in. I want to experience the feeling of nature while I'm in my cube as well!

-Dr. Wu

It is always best to test out new ideas and practices at home (or in the office) before doing it in the field (or forest.)

 

[rondak46]

Book Recommendation...

I just wanted to second Neil's recommendation of "How to **** in the Woods". It was written by a woman. I love toilet humor so, it's an hysterical combination; and at the same time educational and useful to outdoor enthusiasts. I don't mean to be sexist, but as this thread is demonstrating, it is not an area of espertise that is typically claimed by the fairer sex.

Mike

 

[Stan]

Packing out poop is critical if you're camping on fragile soils, like islands off the coast of Maine, where the topsoil layer is very thin over bedrock and too fragile to sustain much in the way of "catholes".

As for LNT itself, they are good guidelines. Most are common sense if you want to preserve what you escape to mountains and backcountry for ... but, as I'm sure most of us realize, common sense is a rare commodity ... so someone has to spell it out.

 

[Gris]

A radical idea - what if everyone tried to incorporate the "spirit" of LNT into their everyday lives...?

 

[DougPaul]

A radical idea - what if everyone tried to incorporate the "spirit" of LNT into their everyday lives...?

Of course. Only at home it is called conservation. Or using public transportation/car pooling etc.

Doug

 

[sierra]

what the he##

hey afka bob, I ve been away and just saw your reply to my post, only 2 questions, what the hell did it mean? and do your peers really understand you when you talk? maybe some people are impressed at jibberish but Im not, hey have a great day.
P.S. snowing in the Rockies AGAIN !!!!! oh well, tools strapped on, its to the heights for the weekend!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
I Never trust anyone under 14,000 ft.