Longest snow cover?

[SpencerVT]

Given the massive snow accumulation this winter and cool temperatures this Spring, it would seem like we are gearing up for a year of extraordinarily long snow cover at the higher elevations. I was up by Ethan Pond yesterday in NH, and there was still an average of 2 feet of snow cover or more in places. It is getting hard to imagine it melting before June.
Obviously you can find patches in June often, but what's the longest you all remember seeing snow cover into the Spring??
(That isn't like Tuckermans, or the summer of 1816, but just a high elevation plateau kind of similar to the Ethan Pond area).
Just curious because I think this is going to be a banner year for snow cover longevity in places.
In addition, it seems like the brooks haven't crested yet. I think they have not raged their hardest since most of the water up high is still contained as snow and not runoff yet.
XC Ski in July? Hahaha

 

[peakbagger]

I have seen deep snow years that lasted in June. I think 2005 held onto the snow pack late. I don't think we are at the point where the Tuckerman Glacier will form anytime soon

I do remember year where snowshoes would be useful in shaded spots up to Memorial Day. The region has been stuck with the jet stream on top of us multiple weeks, when it shift north it will get warm at night and that will make dent in the remaining snowpack.

The old timers in the Berlin Gorham area, did not plant their tomatoes until the "seven" snow field was gone in Kings Ravine and some years the seven has lasted until 7/7.

 

[sierra]

Some years it does seem like the snowpack will last into June. But from what I have seen, you get into May and the temps go up fast. What really kicks the melt into high gear is the nighttime temps rising. I've heard people say, "the snow will last till July!!" and its gone by beginning of June.

 

[DayTrip]

I only have about 7 years of reference point but it seems in most years by Mid-May the snow is generally gone with exception of some slushy monorail and patches in deep ravines and North facing areas. I haven't been up to NH since mid March but based on trip report photos, etc it sounds like several feet of full coverage is still pretty common in many spots. I'd expect there will definitely be June snow this year in a lot of places. I think it was 2015 when I climbed Washington via Great Gulf Trail mid June and the area around Spaulding Lake had 2+ feet of snow around it and many of the ravines on Clay were holding large patches of snow that two guys were actually skiing. That is the latest I can recall seeing substantial snow anywhere.

 

[JToll]

I have a picture from June 17, 2009 with large snow fields at the top of Jefferson.

 

[B the Hiker]

Many moons ago we hiked through Mahoosuc Notch and then over Goose Eye on the Fourth of July, and while clamoring through the boulders, I was surprised to see a fair amount of ice still packed down below us. Dang that day was hot and humid! But that was certainly exceptional, if not still neat.

As with "Sierra," I think the big thing is when the lows start to rise and the snow loses any opportunity to re-freeze at night. May is just a tough month to be hiking in the Whites. The bugs are out, it's warm, but the trails are a mess. Either they're muddy, or they're crumbling monorail, and the streams can be high.

I guess because grid hiking is so popular now (I suspect there are hundreds and hundreds of us), NH lacks a shoulder season where folks avoid the trails, but if they did, it would be, what, late April to early June?

Brian

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I was in the Southern Presidential Range today. The snow is constant above 2800'. Worse snowshoes for a good bit - except on the longer rockier stretches above treeline.

Tim

 

[skiguy]

Many moons ago we hiked through Mahoosuc Notch and then over Goose Eye on the Fourth of July, and while clamoring through the boulders, I was surprised to see a fair amount of ice still packed down below us. Dang that day was hot and humid! But that was certainly exceptional, if not still neat.

As with "Sierra," I think the big thing is when the lows start to rise and the snow loses any opportunity to re-freeze at night. May is just a tough month to be hiking in the Whites. The bugs are out, it's warm, but the trails are a mess. Either they're muddy, or they're crumbling monorail, and the streams can be high.

I guess because grid hiking is so popular now (I suspect there are hundreds and hundreds of us), NH lacks a shoulder season where folks avoid the trails, but if they did, it would be, what, late April to early June?

Brian

This year is more the norm of what it was like back in the 60’s and 70’s. Yea I know I’m older than dirt and I’m usually a perpetually cranky kind of guy with no real name. But skiing in Tuck’s until late June into early July was common much of the time.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

July 4, 2008, there were a few guys skiing "the beach" (the snowfield above the knees) on Jefferson.

Tim

 

[Greenmountaingoat]

I walked up the closed portion of route 108 in Stowe VT during lunch yesterday. 95% dry pavement for the first mile but some big patches of snow starting at 2000'. Lots of bare ground on the hillsides but some of the protected gullies will be hanging on for a wile. It's also above 60 degrees and raining today so I suspect not too much longer before they can open the road.

 

[ChrisB]

This year is more the norm of what it was like back in the 60’s and 70’s. Yea I know I’m older than dirt and I’m usually a perpetually cranky kind of guy with no real name. But skiing in Tuck’s until late June into early July was common much of the time.

You got that right Skiguy!

In the 60s my dear old dad did not consider a ski season a success unless he and the rest of the Sterling Ski Club from CT spent a long Memorial Day weekend in Tucks.

That's just what he did every Memorial Day. Then there was a REALLY heavy snow year (66?) when went went back for the 4th of July.

cb

 

[skiguy]

You got that right Skiguy!

In the 60s my dear old dad did not consider a ski season a success unless he and the rest of the Sterling Ski Club from CT spent a long Memorial Day weekend in Tucks.

That's just what he did every Memorial Day. Then there was a REALLY heavy snow year (66?) when went went back for the 4th of July.

cb

I bet those guys had no reason to be Curmudgeons. I think the year your thinking of was '69.

 

[blacknblue]

1997. Mount Washington got over 90" of snow in May alone. In mid-June, there was still 3-4 feet of snow on places like Twinway. The AMC shelters and campsites had a hard time digging out and getting up and running. People were skiing the Tucks headwall past August 1. I had lunch on the Jefferson snowfield on July 4th and it was still sizable.

 

[peakbagger]

The spring of 1997 I drove up from Portland to Berlin for a job interview. It was the week before Memorial Day. I came up through Conway in the AM and then after the interview decided to take a drive down RT 113 through Evans Notch. I do not remember any gates or if they existed they were open. It did not look very well used. I got up just short of the top of the notch on the north side and went around a corner to see a 6 foot high snowbank completely blocking the road. It was obvious that no one had driven through there for several months except snowmobiles.

I accepted the job an moved up to the north county. The road was open by fourth of July.

 

[skiguy]

1997. Mount Washington got over 90" of snow in May alone. In mid-June, there was still 3-4 feet of snow on places like Twinway. The AMC shelters and campsites had a hard time digging out and getting up and running. People were skiing the Tucks headwall past August 1. I had lunch on the Jefferson snowfield on July 4th and it was still sizable.

For some of us 1997 was an endless Winter. In other words Mount Washington was skied 12 Months in a row.

 

[TEO]

This year is more the norm of what it was like back in the 60’s and 70’s. Yea I know I’m older than dirt and I’m usually a perpetually cranky kind of guy with no real name. But skiing in Tuck’s until late June into early July was common much of the time.

I'm not so sure of that. Here's the data from the Stake on Mt. Mansfield, which is next to the Toll Road at 3,900'. In the '60s and '70s, only '68–'69 surpassed '18–'19, in terms of the high-water mark. '74–'75 and '70–'71 are the only others that came close in those two decades. In fact, since '54, when the snow depth records for the Stake began, only '68–'69 and '00–'01 beat this past winter. That said, like '00–'01, the snowpack this spring is disappearing more quickly than more than a few big years. Granted the Stake is but one data point, and in Vermont, but at least among skiers it is the primary reference point for comparing winters in New England.

 

[skiguy]

I'm not so sure of that. Here's the data from the Stake on Mt. Mansfield, which is next to the Toll Road at 3,900'. In the '60s and '70s, only '68–'69 surpassed '18–'19, in terms of the high-water mark. '74–'75 and '70–'71 are the only others that came close in those two decades. In fact, since '54, when the snow depth records for the Stake began, only '68–'69 and '00–'01 beat this past winter. That said, like '00–'01, the snowpack this spring is disappearing more quickly than more than a few big years. Granted the Stake is but one data point, and in Vermont, but at least among skiers it is the primary reference point for comparing winters in New England.

Some great data. But it ain’t Tuck’s! The thing that is always interesting is that statistical information needs to be interpreted. For instance my notes show skiing Tucks July 3rd and 4th,1978. Which is a year not in the top 3 of snowfall in your chart. IMO comparing the Snow Stake at 3900 feet on Mt.Mansfield is not representative of the Ravine. For instance is the toll road skiable at this point? Possibly. But the Ravine certainly is and will be long after The Mansfield Toll Road which is more the norm.

 

[TEO]

Some great data. But it ain’t Tuck’s! The thing that is always interesting is that statistical information needs to be interpreted. For instance my notes show skiing Tucks July 3rd and 4th,1978. Which is a year not in the top 3 of snowfall in your chart. IMO comparing the Snow Stake at 3900 feet on Mt.Mansfield is not representative of the Ravine. For instance is the toll road skiable at this point? Possibly. But the Ravine certainly is and will be long after The Mansfield Toll Road which is more the norm.

You're right, it definitely isn't Tucks, but I'd argue that for a single data point, it's probably a better for basing a generalization for the quality of the winter in the mountainous regions of New England. For one, it isn't nearly as susceptible to wind-loading. (Whether or not the Toll Road is skiable has no bearing on this discussion.) The Stake, which is in a sheltered location, gives an indication of the total snowfall over the course of the winter at a relatively high elevation, and from it we can also infer a little about the localized climate over the course of the year. Note that if you compare '77–'78 and '96–'97 to the Great Winters of '68–69 and '00–'01 and this winter, '96–'97 outlasted them all and '77–'78 out-performed '68–'69, '00–'01, and '18–'19 so far in the month of May, which correlates with your personal records for Tucks trips. While this was a good winter in terms of snow depth, it's falling off more quickly than a number of years in the '60s and '70s.

 

[skiguy]

You're right, it definitely isn't Tucks, but I'd argue that for a single data point, it's probably a better for basing a generalization for the quality of the winter in the mountainous regions of New England. For one, it isn't nearly as susceptible to wind-loading. (Whether or not the Toll Road is skiable has no bearing on this discussion.) The Stake, which is in a sheltered location, gives an indication of the total snowfall over the course of the winter at a relatively high elevation, and from it we can also infer a little about the localized climate over the course of the year. Note that if you compare '77–'78 and '96–'97 to the Great Winters of '68–69 and '00–'01 and this winter, '96–'97 outlasted them all and '77–'78 out-performed '68–'69, '00–'01, and '18–'19 so far in the month of May, which correlates with your personal records for Tucks trips. While this was a good winter in terms of snow depth, it's falling off more quickly than a number of years in the '60s and '70s.

Agreed. But back to OP. Maybe The “The Longest Snow Cover” does not mean the same thing to everyone. Yes you can throw statistical data at it but again that is up to interpretation. Is Mount Mansfield your yardstick or is Tuckerman’s Ravine? Maybe it is how long it takes for The Subway to be passable in Kings Ravine. To me a lot of it is semantics. Primarily using the snow stake at Mt. Mansfiled as an annual snow gauge for the entirety of New England is IMO a bit arbitrary. For instance most years just up the road at Jay Peak they usually thump Mount Mansfield on Total snowfall. So should we be using that Mountain instead? I’m going to stick to my notes as I know what I did an experienced. If you would like to see it differently that is your opinion statistically or not. Thanks for the data. Certainly interesting and open to interpretation.

 

[JoshandBaron]

https://www.cambridge.org/core/journals/journal-of-glaciology/article/an-historical-survey-of-the-lateseason-snowbed-in-tuckerman-ravine-mount-washington-usa/9A5964D0AA6C9D6E9D5A2C55493F4F1C/core-reader