Looking for conditioning advice...

[Rick]

OK Gurus -
Here is a question for you -
If cross training at 6 AM (Jog, Elliptical trainer, lift weights & Swim) for and hour and a half, would you normally eat a small meal beforehand?

I usually eat breakfast at the office after my workout, but if it is better to do so beforehand, please let me know - Also, I'm curious what others do....

 

[DougPaul]

Some other things to consider: hikers are usually sore at the end of the day due to getting beat up on the downhills.

Training the muscles to absorb energy (eccentric contractions) can be a big help here. There is some recent evidence that the eccentric contractions use a different metabolic pathway than the concentric (energy producing) contractions.

See post #13 in this thread for some of my earlier comments.

Doug

 

[Neil]

Exercising in the fasting state.

OK Gurus -
Here is a question for you -
If cross training at 6 AM (Jog, Elliptical trainer, lift weights & Swim) for and hour and a half, would you normally eat a small meal beforehand?

I usually eat breakfast at the office after my workout, but if it is better to do so beforehand, please let me know - Also, I'm curious what others do....

Rick, I think you should have a small meal first. At the very least have a glass of OJ. If your session is long drink something like gaitor aid during.
In the morning your liver and blood sugar is pretty well depleted. Also, your diurnal cortisol levels are at their highest. Exercising under these conditions will promote protein degradation in ordere to provide energy using a biochemical pathway called gluconeogenesis. (Gluco= glucose, neo = new, genesis= creation) Your body “creates” sugar from your muscles!
If you drink coffee the caffeine will increase the cortisol level even more.
Also, a nutritionist told me that aerobic conditioning in the fasting state results in lots of fat getting released into the bloodstream.

 

[focusonbalance]

Be wise, lots of great advice, but I would be leary of the "only train like this" stuff. Three words of advice, balance, variety, and moderation. Endurance training is wonderful, I do it myself, but there will be steep runs (up and down) and you will be wearing plenty of extra weight. I don't know you're age or injury history but the joints can only stand up to so much pressure. What good is having awsome endurance when your knees or back won't allow you to get out there to use it? You can have both. WHo says lifting will make you look like Arnold, bulking up is one of the most difficult things to do! I hope you will be flying around the hills for many years-injury free, if you can do that without strengthening then all the power to you!!! I hope to be trekking past 90, the body is a machine, treat it well and it will treat you well in return.

 

[Puck]

damn you guys are making this complicated....gluconeogenisis can occur by the deamination of amino acids from the break down of larger protiens. I t can also occur due to the break down of lipids into AcetylCo A....ok ok I found a picture. http://home.wxs.nl/~pvsanten/mmp/mmp.html

You know what is funny...during Biochem class I thought about hiking...now when I hike I think about Biochem.

 

[TJH]

OK Gurus -
Here is a question for you -
If cross training at 6 AM (Jog, Elliptical trainer, lift weights & Swim) for and hour and a half, would you normally eat a small meal beforehand?

I usually eat breakfast at the office after my workout, but if it is better to do so beforehand, please let me know - Also, I'm curious what others do....

I agree with Neil, but I am not as smart as Neil

Through my late teens and into my mid twenties I was quite the avid weightlifter/bodybuilder. This is my answer to your question through my experience. If your goals are merely fat burning, ( trying to get lean / cut ), without sacrificing muscle mass, then I believe that drinking some water first thing in the morning, then doing about 20 - 30 min. or so of cardio in your fat burning range on a bike or treadmill would be the way to go. I would then eat about an hour after finishing the cardio. A good meal consisting of protein, carbs, and a little fat.

If you are performance training, ( working out to get better, faster, stronger at peakbagging or so forth ), then having a small meal beforehand would be the way to go. Something maybe 10 g. of protein and 30 grams of carbs. Of course the water too.

1 1/2 hours of working out on an empty stomach seems like quite a long time. I know if I was really pushing it during that time, I would get pretty nausious and probably be dry heaving at the gym. And then there are the actual chemical/ medical reasons that Neil stated. This is jut my .02 from past experience. TJH

 

[catskillclimber]

You have plenty of advice here from smarter people than me but here is the corny little workout I do to stay in shape for general life and hiking. Try to fit it all in to a half-hour, but preferably 20 minutes.
First do five minutes of simple yoga stretches for your lower back then take a deck of cards and shuffle them.

Moday & Thursday-
Black cards equal the face value with Jacks=11, Queens=12, Kings=13
All black cards are push-ups, and all read are crunches Aces=15 pull-ups.

Tuesday & Friday-Fill your backpack with your hiking supplies & water and put it on.
Cards equal the same as above only: Black cards=squats, Red cards=calf raises, and Aces=10 pull-ups again (with the weighted pack)

Wednesday-Stretch lower back and legs with yoga to improve flexability and balance.

Saturday or Sunday-take a very long walk at a good pace for at least an hour for extended cardio.

I know it sounds strange but it works for me. I never get very out of breath or suffer from soar legs when hiking anymore. Then again, everybody's body responds to different routines. Enjoy your weekend hike everyone!
Later,
cc

 

[Neil]

damn you guys are making this complicated....gluconeogenisis can occur by the deamination of amino acids from the break down of larger protiens. I t can also occur due to the break down of lipids into AcetylCo A....ok ok I found a picture. http://home.wxs.nl/~pvsanten/mmp/mmp.html

You know what is funny...during Biochem class I thought about hiking...now when I hike I think about Biochem.

McRat: one word of advice regarding that link. Do NOT go in there.

Puck, Are you SURE fats can go to sugar? I always thought it was just amino acids.

TJH, You're right, fasting state aerobics in the fat burning zone (speed walking) followed by a meal will do more to give you a 6-pack than a bunch of sit-ups.
(Here's an off-topic aside: if you love sit-ups think of what happens to a piece of metal if you bend it back and forth enough times. Now imagine your intervertebral disc as that piece of metal.)

I used to get up, have a coffee then run 6 miles and to be honest, I loved it. Now, for a variety of reasons I do almost all my exercise at 1:00pm.

 

[sapblatt]

More regional hiking areas

Breakhart, as you mentioned is another great place. There certanly some steep spots in there...I almost killed myself on my bike in there once when I was going over 30 mph on a steep downhill and somehow did not see the speed bump until it was about 20 feet in front of me...somehow I stayed balanced!
The Lynn Woods is also a great place with trails and nice views to the city and ocean...it is the second biggest urban park in the US (after Central Park.)

I am planning on hitting the Fells on Sunday.

 

[Puck]

Puck, Are you SURE fats can go to sugar? I always thought it was just amino acids.

Neil my post was intended to be more tongue in cheek and not argument. But yes lipids will get broken down into AcetylCoA wich is also a product of glucolysis. (glucose to pyruvate to acetylcoA) The lipid metabolism enters into the Krebs cycle as AcetylcoA. However, whenever there is an abundance it can get converted to glucose. (not a direct pathway but it just moves back up the chain.)

Also protiens get metabolized not directly into glucose but into one of the intermidiates. which in turn can get converted into glucose...I know this is hair splitting and won't make one a better hiker. In the end its all Adenosene triphosphate.

 

[sierra]

head games

Alot of great technical advide hear, I dont need to add to, but Id like to touch on something I think is critical, your mental toughness during a hike/climb. The reason beginners have a hard time starting out in hiking is their not used to the physical strain mountain climbing takes. Once you adjust to it, you realize its normal to be winded, a little fatigued, and general suffering involved on a tough hike, espechally at altitude.
That being said, I think alot of hikers hike under their potential, due to the inability to get far enough passed the above symptoms of mountain climbing. I have always focused on my limits and pushing them very hard, this is critical to both building endurance and increasing both your times and distances. Now I realize some people are content to stroll through their hikes (thats cool for them) I like to crank through most of mine. Get mean, pain is your friend, I talk to myself on tough climbs, I have a repetora of running words/phrases that I continually recite as I climb, My favorite being, that Im a White mountain climbing machine, designed for one purpose, climbing peaks. I tear into hikes espechally when tired, like it was life or death,someday it might be.
Granted this is not for everyone, dont think Im weird, but I think by pushing oneself in this manner you develope endurance, confidence and a understanding of just what your body is capable of. While this approach to training and hiking is certainally not for everyone, I once got lost in the Sierra's and hiked for 20 hours before coming out to a road, while tired I was phisically fine.
Push yourself, dont underestimate your abilitys, but at the same time dont be afraid to stop and smell the wild flowers once in a while as well.

 

[Artex]

Very well said, Sierra! That's along the lines with how I feel about running. It's 90% mental, IMO. The same can be said for steeper hikes. Without goals and a burning desire, the wheels will never get in motion. The proper mindset is everything. Once that's in place, the path is clear.

 

[Nonlegit]

This is one of my favorite topics...get ready to read

Well, I did the irresponsible thing and i am writing a response without reading the whole thread. Dont kill me if i say the same stuff people said earlier .

Cardio is obviously the most important. I have experimented quite a bit to see what helps the most with hiking. When i was a varsity distance runner and really competitive, i would still perform at (relatively) the same level as a friend who walked in the woods all the time. I was in amazing shape (about 5'10", 145, no fat, threw down 17 min 5ks on hilly courses, and could crank out sub 445 minute mile reps, etc). This other guy walked about 4 miles a day with a heavy pack on, and he performed almost at the same level as me. Cutting to the chase, if i had access to a stair stepper i would work it with a pack on (ive done worse in a gym, ie pull ups on a bar with ice axes...). Also, dont throw away lifting wieghts. I have been working out like a maniac for a good 8 months now (just for kicks, i am a fitness fiend so i wanted to try something new). I was doing heavy reps for weight gain, and pyramid lifting for overall strength. Now, i am 5'11", 180, very little fat (i still run about 7 miles every day at about 630 mile pace). I have performed better overall hiking i think than my track days. However, i know that it takes a lot of time to work out and keep peak fitness in any form. So, to hit your goal of hiking hard and long, than i suggest stairstepping (indoors) with a pack, also climbing stairs with a pack is good (because you can also practice coming down). THe best would be hike more, but keep your cardio going, and dont neglect total body strength, because it helps you in whatever form of fitness you are trying to achieve. Try to at least do push ups, sit ups, and supermans if nothing else on top of some form of cardio. That should suffice.

Edit: just read sierra's post, and i was intrigued. When I ran on the team (i dont anymore, i do my own thing) my coach would say "pain is temporary, pride is forever". This was to keep us mentally motivated during a run. You can transfer this over to hiking, a little less corny of course. Think of the views from the top, not that you are stair stepping below treeline.

this is a good site, that is pretty intense but has good advice for lifting. its honest too. Good workout site

 

[focusonbalance]

THe best would be hike more, but keep your cardio going, and dont neglect total body strength, because it helps you in whatever form of fitness you are trying to achieve.

Amen Nonlegit,

and Sierra!