MA and NH Border Wall

[Nate]

Having visited the Mass. - N.H. border a few times (in addition to the infinite times I've driven by on the highways), I've noticed that there's a stone wall that marks the boundary in the Northern Middlesex and Worcester County areas. Does anyone know where its eastern and western termini are? It doesn't go as far east as Pepperell or west of the Connecticut River from what I've observed.

Also, is there any monument marking the furthestmost northern point of Mass.? From the maps it appears the border temporarily flattens out in the vicinity of Grape Hill in Salisbury.

 

[Papa Bear]

Having visited the Mass. - N.H. border a few times (in addition to the infinite times I've driven by on the highways), I've noticed that there's a stone wall that marks the boundary in the Northern Middlesex and Worcester County areas. Does anyone know where its eastern and western termini are? It doesn't go as far east as Pepperell or west of the Connecticut River from what I've observed.

Also, is there any monument marking the furthermost point of Mass.? From the maps it appears the border temporarily flattens out in the vicinity of Grape Hill in Amesbury.

Borders are usually defined as a series of straight lines between points marked with monuments. That's what surveyors like to mark. Thus the wall is probably not an official boundary marker, but more likely was built by neighboring property owners. But you might find a monument or two buried in the wall at specific points.

There are monuments on all sides of Massachusetts including the NH line. The VT-NY-MA and CT-NY-MA tri-points have monuments. I'm told there is a monument at the VT-NH-MA tri-point but it is burried underwater on the west shore of the CT River due to a dam downstream (see this).

Monuments are often shown on maps as little squares, often numbered, thus:

CT-NY-MA tri-point

VT-NY-MA tri-point

VT-NH-MA tri-point

As you might guess, there are folks who "bag" tri-points (who, me? ).

Edit: I just checked around Grape Hill. See this. Looks like Monument #158 is just west and #159 is just east of the hill at road sides. You might be able to find these if the roads haven't been improved too much. You could follow the line on the Topozone maps and see # 160, 161, etc.

 

[el-bagr]

On the subject of interpretation of stone walls and political boundaries, I strongly recommend Sightseeking: Clues to the Landscape History of New England by Christopher J. Lenney. It covers those subjects and much more, focusing on reading the landscape. You'll gain insight into things like place names, road networks, and toponymy. For example, Lenney analyzes the "Great-Big Line" -- north of a certain line across Maine, features tend to be called "Big" (e.g. Big Island Pond) as opposed to "Great" (e.g. any of the many Great Ponds).

 

[albee]

I live about 2.5 miles from Amesbury's Grape Hill. I'll check around for the monuments next time I'm out for a run in that area (in the daylight!).

The final eastern boundary between MA and NH is a curious story. There was a monument originally erected on the southern bank of the Merrimack River, but the river changed course and now empties farther north. The monument is now surrounded by a concrete cylinder since it is about 10 feet below ground level. It is commemorated with a small park (100 square feet?) between two beach houses in Salisbury, MA.

Just goes to show how much the lay of the land is changing all around us in a relatively short timespan!

 

[Nate]

I'm not sure who put up the rock wall in question, but (as per Mohamed's entry for Middlesex County on the County Highpointer's website) when following the State Line Trail west from the Midstate Trail at the Mass. - N.H. border, it passes both a surveryor's monument from 1834 and another monument which marks the boundary between the towns of Ashby, Ashburnham, and New Ipswich (planted in 1894). Both monuments are along the stone wall. I've encountered this wall at both this point and on a snowmobile trail in Townsend State Forest, and at both places it extended as far as the eye could see (which wasn't all that far in the woods).

Perhaps the wall is just a North Middlesex thing.

 

[askus3]

I don't want to sidetrack this thread, but I just want to ask peakbagr, where would this thread wind up in the NY/NE split? I would say New England but there is info here valuable to perk New Yorker's interests. "Papa Bear's post"!Just throw that in, please go back to your discussion- but I felt compelled to make my point opposing a NY/NE split.

 

[Hillwalker]

The Wall

This wall was the creation of our New Hamster presidential candidate from many years ago, Lyndon Larouche. He intended the wall to be much higher, and topped with barbed wire. It was soon discovered however that the state would soon become totally penniless without the influx of visitors from the south. He also proposed electronic billboards at the borders for use on some weekends that would state: "New Hampshire is full". "Take a number". Just some homeboy humor folks. We really do love you all!

 

[Nate]

Revisiting Grape Hill

When I originally posted my question about the border in the vicinity of Grape Hill, I conceded to the possibility that there might be a long-forgotten monument on the wooded hillside that marks the most northern point in Mass. However, having finally visited Salisbury this past weekend, all I found was nuthin'. No boundary swaths, no rock walls, no cool monuments or even hidden hordes of treasure. There are state boundary markers (from 1890) on both Black Snake Road and Elmwood Street (the latter designates the point where the towns of Salisbury, Amesbury, South Hampton, and Seabrook all meet). However, between these two points is nothing but woods and and an increasing number of people's back yards.

Now that I think of it, I guess I should have taken a waypoint from both markers and seen if either one yielded a more northernly reading. Since the border jags south from each point, if either one happened to have a greater latitude, it truly would be the most northern point in MA. Even if the monument was placed more north than it was supposed to, because it's location is accepted by both states, its location marks what has become the official state line.

 

[arghman]

The final eastern boundary between MA and NH is a curious story. There was a monument originally erected on the southern bank of the Merrimack River, but the river changed course and now empties farther north.

It is my understanding that the original border between MA and NH was 3 miles north of the Merrimack River, at which it essentially still remains today. (edit: at least for the eastern part of the border) There was a whole huge border dispute over southern NH in the Manchester / Concord area and westward, because when the border was originally declared, people thought the river ran E-W and would make a convenient border reference, and they were unaware that it curves around Tyngsborough/Lowell & upstream of that, runs N-S for much of its length, thereby accidentally granting a lot of land to Massachusetts by literal interpretation. Oops.

You shouldn't necessarily believe internet sources, but see this one. Or check the State Papers of NH by A. S. Batchellor et all, but I'm not sure of the volume/page. (probably Vol 1 though)

perhaps the mention of a monument (not a boundary monument but a reference monument) being at the old mouth of the river is correct; they certainly could have surveyed and marked a reference point for the 3-mile measurement.

 

[albee]

I take back what I said about the Merrimack River ever being the boundary... I meant to say that the Hampton River marked the eastern boundary. It is marked by Bound Rock, a not-so-impressive monument encased in a concrete cistern in somebody's backyard in Seabrook.

For more information, see this interesting website:
http://www.newhampshire.com/historical-markers/bound-rock.aspx

I thought this website was neat, too:
http://www.nh.gov/markers/result.php

 

[summit1]

There is also one of these markers on the MA-RI-CT tripoint. It is a granite obelisk about 3 feet tall with the names of each state on the corresponding sides.

 

[skimom]

There is a stone wall along the NH/MA border in Dunstable (east of Pepperell), and atleast two large stone markers that I know of. The wall itself is not continuous due to contruction or logging or whatever it is that happens to things in the woods, but there are some good long patches of it left.

 

[RoySwkr]

when following the State Line Trail west from the Midstate Trail at the Mass. - N.H. border, it passes both a surveryor's monument from 1834 and another monument which marks the boundary between the towns of Ashby, Ashburnham, and New Ipswich (planted in 1894).

As NH and MA were separated in colonial times these are obviously not the original markers

Note that the latter monument also marks the Middlesex/Worcester county boundary. I was there once with 2 famous county highpointers and we followed the compass bearing for the county line and across the second trail it came within a few feet of hitting the end of a wall which continued along that bearing, passing the Middlesex COHP somewhat later. Hence this wall at least was probably built by property owners not the county.

Another time I was there with a guy who grew up locally, when he was a kid the Catholic Bishop of Worcester still required you to eat fish on Friday while the Bishop of Middlesex did not (or maybe it was vice versa). Anyway apparently the thing to do for wild Catholic youth in those days was to sneak into the wrong county on Friday night and order a steak.

 

[Nate]

Grape Hill Redux

I had an OCD moment on the drive up to Maine today, so I revisited the Grape Hill area to take some readings. I stopped at the monuments on Black Snake Road and Elmwood Street, where at the former I got a latitude reading of 42 degrees, 53.203 minutes North. I took two readings there, and they both agreed for latitude. At the western monument, my first reading was 42 degrees, 53.201 minutes North, and my second reading was 42 degrees, 53.199 minutes North. For all four readings, I held the GPS over the center of the monument, and there was a margin of error of about twenty to thirty feet. Considering a thousandth of a minute of latitude is about six feet, the difference in latitude between the two monuments is not significant considering the margin of error.

Nevertheless, based on what I observed in the field with less than professional grade equipment, I have concluded that if one had to pick one spot that is the most northern point in the entire Commonwealth of Mass., it would be the boundary marker on Black Snake Road.

Should anyone take readings with better equipment and have findings different than mine, definitely post it here.

 

[RoySwkr]

I have concluded that if one had to pick one spot that is the most northern point in the entire Commonwealth of Mass., it would be the boundary marker on Black Snake Road.

Fort Kent beats it, until 1820

Another GPS project might be to locate the N corners of Sandwich NH, to see if the summit of Sandwich Mtn should actually be shown in Sandwich
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=43.89322&lon=-71.56543&datum=nad27&layer=DRG
http://www.topozone.com/map.asp?lat=43.91604&lon=-71.36199&datum=nad27&layer=DRG

 

[Nate]

In 1820, was Fort Kent actually the furtherest north point of Mass., or was it really Madawaska or Big Twenty Township?

Also, considering the Hampton River used to mark the MA-NH border, does anyone happen to know when it shifted to its current position?