Maine Woods National Monument

[peakbagger]

Looks like its all set

http://outthere.bangordailynews.com...ion-to-keep-maine-monument-worth-celebrating/

 

[Scubahhh]

Limited logging... maybe an innocuous little coal mine or two? Good new jobs for Millinocket, cleaning the coal!

Don't trust Ryan Zinke as far as you could throw him.

 

[peakbagger]

Limited logging... maybe an innocuous little coal mine or two? Good new jobs for Millinocket, cleaning the coal!

Don't trust Ryan Zinke as far as you could throw him.

Not to worry, no coal in Maine, plenty of its precursor, biomass. If there was something valuable under the ground or on the property the resources would have been long gone by now. Various local groups are pushing to get clarifications regarding opening it up to timber production, hunting and recreational use. Unlike Percival Baxter's donation there does not appear to be a Deeds of Trust for KWW thus we get to trust the elected US Government for management oversight of the NPS.

 

[peakbagger]

Proposed Mine near KWW

http://www.mainebiz.biz/article/201...-company-eyes-property-near-national-monument

There was very loose mining bill pushed before the Maine legislature to roll back very stiff regulations in effect. The substantial reduction in requirements had been requested by Irving, a very large landowner in Maine to potentially surface mine a similar deposit at Bald Mountain further north in the county. The legislature modified the proposed changes substantially to allow some underground mining while prohibiting surface mining. Irving claims that the new regulations are still too strict and have pulled back. This firm apparently seem to think they can make a go of it despite the new regulations. The reasons that Maine had such tough regulations is that they have a few abandoned mines with significant acid drainage issues. Unfortunately the environmental effects last long after the deposits are mined.

For folks familiar with the north country of NH there is area called Copperville in Milan that had an active copper mine at one point which I believe is the same sort of deposit. It was an underground mine and reportedly there are still vertical shafts in the area although I expect they are filled with water if they haven't collapsed. The last owner of some of land (I am not sure if it was the entire mine site) was a Canadian entity that cut the timber and then let it go up for taxes. The town of Milan took the land over. There is old siding along the SLR track filled with piles of some sort of byproduct from the operation.

 

[peakbagger]

http://bangordailynews.com/2017/09/...o-open-maine-monument-to-commercial-forestry/

I expect this is going to be controversial

 

[peakbagger]

Quite a few editorials and articles in the Maine press of late looking at the same data on visitors to the National Monument. The numbers are based on vehicle visits, so any vehicle driving past a monitoring spot is recorded as a visitor with a factor used to determine total visitors. There is no gatehouse that I am aware or charge to enter so the data quality is pretty minimal. It would be quite interesting to see statistics on how well the linkage between Acadia NP and KWW has worked. There was a lot of speculation that visitors to ANP would drive the extra 3 hours north and spend a few days at KWW. The town of Patten and local real estate agents in the Millinocket area claim there has been an uptick in real estate activity but that could just as easily be impacted by other drivers like cheap gas or a rising economy.

http://bangordailynews.com/2017/11/...till-fall-far-short-of-visits-to-state-parks/

I did attempt to do a drive into the park this summer but signage from the Patten exit of the Interstate was non existent. Far more anti monument signs along the roads. If you do plan to visit, bring some paper maps as cell coverage is poor in the area so map aps dont work.

I expect given the current political climate with respect to the new monuments, things will remain in flux for a couple of more years. In the meantime it sounds like if someone does visit, they dont need to worrry about crowds.

 

[Brambor]

The drive in from Patten is the same as drive in to North Gate of Baxter State Park. The only difference is you take a right before the North Gate maintenance parking lot. That is if You want to drive into the monument in a car. In the winter and also in the summer people just park at the parking lot and either bike or ski into the monument. The road is gated in the winter to preserve the snow grooming of trails for skiing.

Quite a few editorials and articles in the Maine press of late looking at the same data on visitors to the National Monument. The numbers are based on vehicle visits, so any vehicle driving past a monitoring spot is recorded as a visitor with a factor used to determine total visitors. There is no gatehouse that I am aware or charge to enter so the data quality is pretty minimal. It would be quite interesting to see statistics on how well the linkage between Acadia NP and KWW has worked. There was a lot of speculation that visitors to ANP would drive the extra 3 hours north and spend a few days at KWW. The town of Patten and local real estate agents in the Millinocket area claim there has been an uptick in real estate activity but that could just as easily be impacted by other drivers like cheap gas or a rising economy.

http://bangordailynews.com/2017/11/...till-fall-far-short-of-visits-to-state-parks/

I did attempt to do a drive into the park this summer but signage from the Patten exit of the Interstate was non existent. Far more anti monument signs along the roads. If you do plan to visit, bring some paper maps as cell coverage is poor in the area so map aps dont work.

I expect given the current political climate with respect to the new monuments, things will remain in flux for a couple of more years. In the meantime it sounds like if someone does visit, they dont need to worrry about crowds.

 

[Raven]

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/12/04/us/trump-bears-ears.html

This week, Bears Ears National Monument was slashed by 85%. Only 15% remains protected from resource extraction (mining. drilling)

Grand Staircase-Escalante in one day went to half it's former protected size.

Protected public lands are being taken and opened for resource extraction. From the NYT article:

"The decision to reduce Bears Ears is expected to set off a legal battle that could alter the course of American land conservation, putting dozens of other monuments at risk and possibly opening millions of preserved public acres to oil and gas extraction, mining, logging and other commercial activities."

What's the future of the Maine Woods National Monument? What does it mean for land to be "protected?"

 

[peakbagger]

I doubt it substantially impacts KWW as unlike the other national monuments, this is not a conversion of existing federally owned land (mostly BLM land), its an outright gift of private land. The reported potential impact would be more similar to switching the management from a National Monument preservation approach (forever wild with tourist amenities) to a National Forest approach (multiple use) which includes logging. Given that KWW has significant patches of regenerating stands from years of commercial forestry some responsible logging may not be bad thing but I expect that is up to debate. Arguably the stand types and distribution are artificial due to years of commercial management tilted to fir/spruce, appropriate forest management could shift the regeneration quicker to a more natural mix that approximates the desired "wild woods".

It would be interesting if the donor has any legal recourse against the government if it switches the designation as the intent of the donor was definitely the preservationist approach.

 

[Brambor]

I think that any logging in the monument that I would be in favor of is logging of small brush and small trees in order to promote mature forest result. Mature forest will hopefully provide larger shade to thwart brush growth and lower the loading of fire hazardous small growth while at the same time provide better experience for visitors to move through the forest and to admire mature growth of beautiful trees.

 

[peakbagger]

Problem Solved

http://bangordailynews.com/2017/12/...recommends-against-changes-at-maine-monument/

 

[peakbagger]

Maine governor is going to allow the installation of road signs to KWW.

http://bangordailynews.com/2018/04/...ll-allow-highway-signs-for-katahdin-monument/

Interesting to note the attendance numbers stated. It appears that snowmobile traffic which in theory was there before the monument declaration is about equal to summer visitors.

 

[Brambor]

Yeah. I don't know if they will plow and maintain the road in the winter months to count vehicles during the winter months. The southern loop section is basically closed in the winter. The northern section is groomed for cross country/snowshoeing and thus car counters are not there either. I have never been to the monument specifically during warm months. I think this year I'll make one or two visits.

Maine governor is going to allow the installation of road signs to KWW.

http://bangordailynews.com/2018/04/...ll-allow-highway-signs-for-katahdin-monument/

Interesting to note the attendance numbers stated. It appears that snowmobile traffic which in theory was there before the monument declaration is about equal to summer visitors.

 

[peakbagger]

The now Katahdin Woods and Waters National Monument is proposed to be enlarged. https://www.bangordailynews.com/2022/08/11/politics/maine-national-monument-expansion/

There is lot of conserved land in the area by various organizations, but this might help the International Appalachian Trail route around the southern end of BSP, currently there is no official route through BSP and the unofficial route via Katahdin Lake was closed a few years ago. Matthew Polstein of New England Outdoors has had a major resort development ready for 20 years on land he owns south of the park. Most of his holdings are quite a drive from KWW while this expansion would get his holdings a lot closer. There is very active "cheerleading" group toting the success of the monument but the vast majority of folks I have talked to who have visited it are less impressed, it predominantly regenerating heavily cut over forestland that is going to take a few more decades to mature out. Very similar to the woods found via the Golden Road.

It is too bad that the monument is not expanded to cover the Matagamon Lake Dam, its reportedly in marginal condition and the loss of it will be a significant impact to Matagamon and the east branch of the Penobscot, if the dam goes, the flows in the summer will drop significantly and Matagamon will cease to be large lake.

 

[Mike P.]

I have to think they will do something with the dam, eventually as the river is about the only other recreation in that area other than BSP. If paddling the East Branch became less than enjoyable, it might push more people to travel to the Allagash where crowds at times are an issue. (Well crowded by Allagash standards, not Franconia Ridge standards)

 

[DayTrip]

The now Katahdin Woods and Waters National Monument is proposed to be enlarged. https://www.bangordailynews.com/2022/08/11/politics/maine-national-monument-expansion/
It is too bad that the monument is not expanded to cover the Matagamon Lake Dam, its reportedly in marginal condition and the loss of it will be a significant impact to Matagamon and the east branch of the Penobscot, if the dam goes, the flows in the summer will drop significantly and Matagamon will cease to be large lake.

That would be a shame. That is a fantastic lake for kayaking and exploring with it's size, all the coves and islands, and remote camping sites. My wife and I spent about 5 hours on it last SEPT on a nice sunny day and we didn't see anyone. Extremely rare to have a fantastic body of water like that with zero crowds,

 

[srhigham]

Expansion map link: https://www.king.senate.gov/imo/media/doc/kww_expansion_map.pdf

 

[peakbagger]

Thanks for the link, it looks to me like the goal is to get a direct entrance to the monument from the Millinocket area. Currently access is easiest from the Sherman Mill/Patten exit so the businesses in Millinocket and East Millinocket do not see a lot of impact. Last thing I knew there were the two Irving stations on either side of the Sherman Mills exit and an old motel and that was about it.

 

[peakbagger]

Bringing back an old thread.

Looks like the law of unintended consequences for the donation of the monument still applies.

https://www.bangordailynews.com/202...ir-national-monument-access-roads-joam40zk0w/

I wonder if the new access through the Penobscot Nations new land from Millinocket will impact this?. The logical place to spend money on road improvements would be from the Millinocket area as compared to Patten, there are far more tourist accommodations and services along the strip from I95 in Medway through Millinocket, then Patten.