matching hiking abilities (rating oneself)

[rhihn]

Paul Ron and other NYC, Long Islanders, I'll take you up on one of those relaxing 6-8 mile hikes, would love to car pool also because the ride is really long and boring...let me know...anyone going to the Maine gathering?..

I don't know where you all hike (we're in Albany), but I'd be more than happy to tag along, depending upon location and date. Paul Ron, so very nicely articulated!

 

[AntlerPeak]

Dick, I was looking around at the various people and spoke with many. I didn't see anyone that looked like your pic as I intended to say hello. Perhaps another time.

As for hiking with others I tend to adjust to the speed of the group be it fast or slow though it seems of late we are tending toward the slower side. Oh well I was never into competitive hiking to my way of thinking it is something to be enjoyed.

 

[Lawn Sale]

Matching your hiking abilities to others is rather dificult because you have to assess what you are looking for in your hiking partners or the group. It seems younger people tend to be more competative, generally bitting off more than they can chew and will race to the finish line. In my opinion this is due to poor judgement using strength and excersize as their excuse for high milage and fast pace.

Boy, isn't this the truth! Ranger C and and the group did Adams and Madison last weekend, and Ranger C ran up ahead several times, as if taunting us "old folks" (I'm almost twice his age, he's 20 and I'm 37) to follow his lead. Well, he burned himself out about 3/4 of the way up the mountain and thought he was done for the day, unable to continue. I got him straightened around with some Gu, and after that he fell into the pack. Each one of us had our own hiking speed, and while my solo pace was faster than the pace we were traveling, I chose to hike at the slower one with the group and enjoyed it so much more. I also had a ton of energy at the end of the day while he was hurting.

I have hiked ahead when it's called for, like the hike up Old Speck last fall, but generally I try to fit in with the group.

I developed a computer program for hiking, where I could gauge where I should be at a certain time, for planning section hikes on the AT. I use the profile map and assign a degree value to each mile, then use my known hiking speed range on flat and very steep slopes as a template, and extrapolate the grade. It's surprisingly accurate, and keeps me in check so I don't bite off more than I can chew, which has happened. I would often plan on getting to such-and-such a shelter, and wouldn't be able to make it, pushing my timetable back or pushing too fast. This way I know that barring something happening, I can make a certain shelter or campsite within the time I've set for myself.

It is a hard thing to gauge, because it depends on weather, pack weight, terrain, and so many other factors.

 

[coldfeet]

I'm trying to stay in shape, hiked a flat trail near my house and took my friends dog today for 2 hours, maybe 4-5 miles..

Yesterday for the first time I walked/hiked with my wife for app 2-3 hours, maybe 4-5 miles in a state park doing "Geocashing" with my friend, his wife and the GPS....my wife loved it when we found the treasure...doing this activity might get her out more and into shape. She had a heart operation a few years ago and her thyroid messes up her mussels....She told me that if my hikes were like that she would go with me...tomorrow we go to Harriman State park and go for a walk...looks like i might have a partner...

 

[SABERG]

great thread

The notion of the "match" is intersting. I also have wondered about the difference between the technical and physical element of a new individual in a group climb vs. the social element.
Intravert/extravert etc.
The responses are great and I appreciate the candor.
The benchmark of the guidebook rates is smart and a great equalizer. I climb/hike with 3 regulars and we often talk about the way to expand our circles, at the same time we meet so many great folks on and off the trail.
Great thread

happy new year to all


Scott

 

[percious]

I'm on the other end of the spectrum from most people here, so I thought it would be interesting to post.

My wife has asked me many many times why I find it so imperative to "hike fast." Like many other people don't realize, my pace is my pace, and it is difficult and sometimes painful to slow down. Now, when I am hiking with my wife I go her pace, and it is no problem. We took a leisurely 6 hours to complete Wright, with a long stay at the summit. Completely enjoyable. I digress...

When you need speed is when you have a goal oriented hike, and you need to cover a certain distance, or you are going to have to turn back. I hike faster so that I can see MORE. More stream crossings, more summits, more valleys, more mountain flowers, more rocks with a tree growing over them (I love that).

Also, there are those of us who like the physical challenge of pushing yourself, and those who hike fast, and hike hard learn their limits so we don't burn out too fast.

Personally, I would like to see what Cave Dog has to say on the subject.

-percious

 

[Mad Townie]

I'm slow on the uphills but faster on the downhills and flats. Still, I enjoy bringing up the rear, or hiking the "sweep" position if you want it to sound a little better.

My practice is to warn the people in my group, well before the hike day, that I'm slow and don't mind hiking by myself at the back of the pack. If they want to hike fast, I have no problem with their saying so and not having me join them. If they want me along, I will hike at my own pace and consider them to have made an educated, informed choice. I don't take responsibility for their choice and I don't expect them to take responsibility for mine.

So far this has worked very well, and I've hiked with some pretty speedy folks who haven't minded waiting for me from time to time. I've also chosen not to go on hikes when it was apparent to me that my companions would prefer to move fast and were just being nice by not "uninviting" me.

Usually it's as much about enjoying the company as it is about enjoying the walk. So thanks, all you speedsters, for tolerating my pace--I enjoy walking with (i.e., behind) you!

 

[Lawn Sale]

It sounds like Percious and I do the same thing, I tend to hike too fast when solo, but don't relalize it until I've either fallen or gotten myself malnourished. I also forget to eat and drink water, which only compounds the problem. It's been years and I am getting better, like taking a sip every 100' of elevation on the steep stuff and eating something every hour. With people it's not a problem as I fall into their speed.

 

[jmegillon149]

I think the booktime assessment is very good, esp in summer, even in winter

Its funny we discussed this issue recently. I attended a trip that was planned online (not on Views, but a similiar message board), those planning it advertised it as relatively easy (in their minds, and mine it was), some who came on the trip did not agree at all, feeling it was very hard, leading to a turnback, we've since had to adjust how we advertise trips on this site.

Interestingly enough, you are talking about hiking grades, it looks as if someone has made a system:

The AMC Bston Chapter actually has devised a system for their hiking trips:

Hiking / Backpacking Rating System
First: Mileage Middle: Pace* Last: Terrain
AA = 13+ miles
A = 9–13 miles
B = 5–9 miles
C = under 5 miles 1 = very fast 2.5+ mph
2 = fast 2–2.5 mph
3 = moderate 1.5–2 mph
4 = leisurely 1.5 mph
A = very strenuous
B = strenuous
C = average
D = easy
* Pace is the leader’s hiking pace on “average” terrain, such as the hilly trails in the Blue Hills.
Example: B2C means 5–9 miles, fast 2–2.5 mph pace, average terrain.
To get an English translation for any blue trip rating, move your mouse over it and either hover there for a second or click.


It seems to make sense, basically the best idea is to take a cue from official clubs such as AMC, GMC, etc., and screen, talk it over, compare experiences. I have attended trips with AMC (several leaders are actually here on Views) and they always have screening, which seems pretty effective, people on Views, or any other message board should do the same.

 

[Double Bow]

Matching your hiking abilities to others is rather dificult because you have to assess what you are looking for in your hiking partners or the group. It seems younger people tend to be more competative, generally bitting off more than they can chew and will race to the finish line. In my opinion this is due to poor judgement using strength and excersize as their excuse for high milage and fast pace. Ask them in a few more years how their knees are holding up and you'll also notice they are slowing down too after having several orthascopic surgeries because of their stupidity.

I find this statement offensive and reeking of ageism. Saying that younger hikers tend to hike fast and that they are bitting off more than they can chew and that this is due to their stupidity would be like saying older hikers tend to hike slow because they're lazy and senile. It is wrong and is feeding an inaccurate stereotype.

I know a lot of hikers of ALL ages who hike fast (including a woman in her 60's who's been hiking fast since her 20's and has had no surgery) and they are not stupid and are not biting off more than they can chew. Ask Cave Dog. Ask Tim Seaver. Ask Stinkyfeet. Ask Frodo. Exercise and a physical challenge are legitimate reasons, not "excuses". The equation is simple: Go faster -> go father -> see more.

Sometimes, I will hike fast and I'm not biting off more than I can chew and have NEVER gotten myself into trouble because I know what I am capable off. As you said, "Smarter is better!" Those who have hiked with me know, I go whatever speed my companion(s) want. Whether that be fast or glacial, I don't care. Many of my younger friends feel the same way.

I also lead "club" hikes and when I do, the speed of the group is the speed of the slowest person. No one EVER gets left in the dust! My chief goal is to make sure that we get back to the cars safely and that everyone has a good time. If we get some views or visit a summit, that's a bonus. All of the other leaders I know feel the same way.

So please, before you make sweeping generalizations, think twice. Remember that there everyone is just trying to "hike their own hike" and that there's no "bad" pace.

 

[bruno]

"booktime"? you mean the times listed in the amc guide between points? i can crawl faster than that. but i think they might be calibrated or something to folks carrying a REAL heavy pack. at least i hope they are. or woe to us. . .

just sayin'!

 

[rhihn]

The equation is simple: Go faster -> go father -> see more.

I think this equation is correct if seeing more equals covering more ground. But I know if I hike fast, I miss a lot of wonderful things along the trail. It all depends upon what one is looking for in a hike.

 

[sli74]

"booktime"? you mean the times listed in the amc guide between points? i can crawl faster than that. but i think they might be calibrated or something to folks carrying a REAL heavy pack. at least i hope they are. or woe to us. . .

just sayin'!

Woe is definitely me

I am usually happy to be hiking at booktime and am usually slower. Since mostly everyone hikes faster than me, I tend to hike my pace and just chat with whomever is there at the time. I have "hiked with" lots of people at varying abilities and speeds and the conversation and friendships formed are a far better judge for me than speeds and abilities. For instance, one would agree that few are faster or in better shape than Frodo and some of my best times have been skiing and hiking with him. However, the conversation lying on a frozen pond where keeping up with him is not required was even better.

A given day, a given hike, a given trail, a given goal and each companions particular physical and mental state can ALL determine hiking compatibility so it is very subjective and to each their own, it is all fun as long as we are out there and not in front of these computers, right?

sli74

 

[Ridgewalker]

Woe is definitely me

I am usually happy to be hiking at booktime and am usually slower. Since mostly everyone hikes faster than me, I tend to hike my pace and just chat with whomever is there at the time. I have "hiked with" lots of people at varying abilities and speeds and the conversation and friendships formed are a far better judge for me than speeds and abilities. For instance, one would agree that few are faster or in better shape than Frodo and some of my best times have been skiing and hiking with him. However, the conversation lying on a frozen pond where keeping up with him is not required was even better.

A given day, a given hike, a given trail, a given goal and each companions particular physical and mental state can ALL determine hiking compatibility so it is very subjective and to each their own, it is all fun as long as we are out there and not in front of these computers, right?

sli74

I agree Sli74, espically the last paragraph!

 

[paul ron]

Who said stupid?

...."I find this statement offensive and reeking of ageism. Saying younger hikers tend to hike fast and that they are bitting off more than they can chew and that this is due to their stupidity"....

ummm let's see....

Mr Bow, You are only the second person I've POed this week and I can only atribute that to user error in both. I use to PO more people 20 years ago so it must be I am getting older or more selective. I think you missread my post or never read any further than your ISM preasure will allow.

YES I did say, "younger people tend to be more competative, generally bitting off more than they can chew and will race to the finish line." So tell me Mr Bow, how does this offend you and where does it say younger people are stupid? The consequences of their actions as inexperianced hikers is what I eventually refered to as stupid. Unlike trained athletes who KNOW how to properly workout, many young people think lifting 350lbs over their head is real strength but never really understand strength is also endurance without doing damage to your body. Anybody can work up to hiking 20 miles/day in "book" times but the real question is how long can you sustain it without hurting yourself if you aren't properly trained or a dedicated athlete, how about the desk jockey once a month? How does he rate a group?

Perhaps the old folks you mentioned are very dedicated athletes and have trained all their lives?... hummmm? How many of them are there, realistically, on the trails smoking everyone in their path?... very few compared to the weekend worriors who aren't out to set records and compete with anyone or have something to prove. I thought that was what this thread was about? That is why many people find reason to join a group, not to compete with Jarheads on a mission but rather to learn how to get started in this sport, as recreation, the right way, without hurting yourself and maybe find compatable partners once the needed skills are learned. Think about it... if you had no experiance, don't know anyone that does, where would you start?... and how would you rate that group to be compatable with your expectations? It's all about fun and relaxation and everyone has different expectations of that. SO would a 50 something weekend worrior with no experiance hook up with a forum group of kids looking to demonstrate their testosterone and celebrate in the bar afterwards?... no not unless I had plenty of harmones to spare or was out of my mind. What about that athlete, would he hook up with a bunch of geriatric slow hikers or beginers and push em into defib? But that is only my opinion of what may or may not offend you.

 

[David Metsky]

<moderator hat on>
Tweet! Time out.

It's OK to discuss someone's opinion, even disagree strongly. Do not attack the person themselves. I don't think we've gone over the line here but we're close. Please think about what you write and maybe take a break before hitting the submit button.

Disagree all you want, civility is all we ask.

-dave-
<moderator hat off>

 

[timmus]

Rating hiking abilities will be like rating spaghetti sauces. Our pace and hiking style is such a personal thing... That's why I keep it to myself.

I am solo hiker because I don't match with 95 % of the hiking community. Too slow, too fast, too talkative, too annoying, too whining. I guess I don't have the capability to ajust myself, and I also feel REALLY good when I am alone. But sometimes I do need partners to help on unbroken trails, or herd path that I don't trust myself enough to attack alone.

Sometimes I also put too much green peppers in my spaghetti sauce and I ruin it.

 

[coldfeet]

Hello me again....I apologize for mentioning rating.....I just wanted to figure out where I sort of fit into in this hobby.....distance, elevation, carrying weight....I always dream if i can do those long distance fund raisers (at my pace) or those Baxter trips that i read about last year sleeping on the pond....or the Rainier trips....i know it's impossible to figure out, just sort of wish i could get invited to try something and not worry that the group has to quit because of me...wish my close friends were into this but I have met many nice people through this hobby...so please be nice to each other ....I'm going to Maine!...

 

[Double Bow]

...."I find this statement offensive and reeking of ageism. Saying younger hikers tend to hike fast and that they are bitting off more than they can chew and that this is due to their stupidity"....

ummm let's see....

Mr Bow, You are only the second person I've POed this week and I can only atribute that to user error in both. I use to PO more people 20 years ago so it must be I am getting older or more selective. I think you missread my post or never read any further than your ISM preasure will allow.

Congradulations on offending progressively fewer people. Perhaps it was just a user error on your part but, I carefully read your post mulitiple times and found it's offensiveness to be beginning from the start and continuing here. The majority of your post was a rant against "young people". To make statements disparaging an entire demographic based on age is ageism and is wrong. As an active advocate for human rights, I find it very disturbing.

YES I did say, "younger people tend to be more competative, generally bitting off more than they can chew and will race to the finish line." So tell me Mr Bow, how does this offend you and where does it say younger people are stupid?

You said that yourger people aledgedly do this "because of their stupidity". The fact that I fall into the group of members in their 20s & 30s makes me take personal offense to this, as does your lack of consideration and refusal to consider that your believes may be flawed.

The consequences of their actions as inexperianced hikers is what I eventually refered to as stupid. Unlike trained athletes who KNOW how to properly workout, many young people...

There are quite a few experienced younger people and quite a few inexperienced older people. There are also plenty of young people who KNOW how to properly workout and plenty of older people who do not. Age is not a factor.

Perhaps the old folks you mentioned are very dedicated athletes and have trained all their lives?... hummmm? How many of them are there, realistically, on the trails smoking everyone in their path?

The "old folks" that I mentioned got into hiking at younger age and continue to enjoy hiking fast. The reason many people choose to hike fast is not to be "smoking everyone in their path", it is to challenge themselves. Those who are in shape and choose to go fast are challenging themselves, just as those who are out of shape choosing to go out are. In both cases, people are out there pushing themselves. Age is not a factor.

BTW, I'm not sure that by any definition Cave Dog at 34 would be considered "old"!

It's all about fun and relaxation and everyone has different expectations of that.

I agree completely! Some people have fun hiking fast, some hiking slow. I enjoy both. Either way, we all enjoy relaxing after the hike is over (it's hard to relax going up a steep grade) and since we all have different expectations from our trail experiences, we are all looking to get something different out of it, whether we are young or old, experienced or inexperienced. That's part of what makes this site so wonderful. It gives people of all ages the ability to meet people with the same interests and share experiences on the trail together. Let's get back to focusing on that.

 

[RoySwkr]

Just as the moderator suggested we disagree with opinions rather than people, why not rate hikes rather than hikers? If you want to go on a 10-mile hike in 7 hours that is what counts, not whether you can do it in 3 if you pushed.

There are several categories to look at:
1) Elapsed time, that can be compared to "guidebook time" or compare the time it took you and someone else to do the same hike
2) Hiking pace, that is partially related to the above but some people like to hike fast and take breaks while others prefer to be slow and steady, travelling slower or faster than your optimum pace will tire you quicker
3) Distance you can cover, some have parts that give out after a certain exertion while others walk slower & longer
4) Route difficulty, some go slow on difficult terrain while others refuse to do it at all

And then there are the "soft" categories that make hikers compatible but can't really be rated numerically:
a) Early start or sleep in and walk out by headlamp
b) Chatter all day or listen to nature
c) Extended breaks at viewpoints or summits
d) Frequent stops for photography or nature study
e) Push on in adverse conditions or come back a better day