Maybe the Strangest Rescue Ever?

[DougPaul]

A rainy/icy climb up Huntington;s & 2:45 start when it's dark at 7:00 without overnight gear or proper clothing. What was the plan? There was a goal, was there a plan other than reaching the goal?

Remember that many who have this kind of difficulty are beginners and do not know the risks they are taking, may not have the appropriate equipment, nor know how to deal with the conditions once they get there.

My first hike in the Whites was Mt Washington, leaving Pinkham at noon on an October day with the cloud line at the top of Tuckerman Ravine. We had no lights and decided to walk down the auto road (a good decision), but were then tempted by Nelson Crag Tr as a shortcut. (Let me simply suggest that you not try to hike NCT in the dark with no lights...) Was probably wearing cotton jeans too. (At least I had a good coat.) Many who are now experienced hikers have similar "first hike" stories. (Seems to me that there was a thread on this some time back. We had a similar discussion back at my college outing club--IIRC, about half of us had similar stories, one involving crawling to the top of MW in 80mph winds.)

Assuming the road was icy if the trail was, I don't think I would have wanted to drive any further down the road then necessary in somebody elses car. It would have been worse had they crashed the car after stealing it (or borrowing it). From the area where they were, the road up is pretty easy.

The probably didn't know what the various parts of the road are like. (I'll bet that plenty of experienced hikers have never driven the road and also do not know what the various sections are like.)

I would have never thought to look & see if I could borrow/steal a car up there in order to bring a distressed hiker to safety, that was lucky (I'm not sure I want to say smart) thinking that worked in this case. (Hopefully hikers looking at borrowing cars does not become a more common occurrence like knocking on the weather station door) but if I thought that my friend needed shelter immediately I probably would have thought about breaking into a building, if I was close to one.

More likely they went to the summit hoping to get help (an all too common theme) and only discovered the car after they got there.

Methinks that speculation is beginning to run rampant (again)...

Doug

 

[Maddy]

I hiked Boott Spur and Washington on Friday, and spoke with AMC staff members at Pinkham and a NH staffer on the summit. Apparently the group left Pinkham around 2:30-2:45PM wearing mostly cotton clothing - it was raining and the conditions were worsening - and believed to be heading for Huntington's. .

Just wondering if any AMC staff person struck up a conversation with these hikers and advised them of the potential harm that could befall them as they prepared to do their death march into Huntington Ravine at 2:45 pm, dressed in primarily cotton clothing,in worsening conditions. These hikers had to be very inexperienced, probably not at all familiar with the terrain and the weather patterns on the Rockpile. I appreciate that the staff at Pinkham are not the "backcountry police" but would this not be considered part of educating the public?
Someone had to have noticed this group of four young men about to put their "invicibility" to the ultimate test.
I have been asked by staff "where are you heading?" Perhaps I look like I'm a potential candidate for rescue but it seems like it would be the right thing to do.

 

[DougG]

Someone had to have noticed this group of four young men about to put their "invicibility" to the ultimate test.

Really? And if so noticed and an educational conversation had ensued, what evidence at this point leads one to believe any words of wisdom would have been listened to and heeded?
A feeling of invincibility at the beginning may have been the culprit which would have rendered its victims void of reason. Kind of a 'mental' hypothermia right out of the gate.

 

[sapblatt]

The few times I have tried to say something, or have seen others offer advice have not gone over in a positive way - the one exception being when a hiker sees me or another and asks advice or a question...

I probably would always say something because it is the right thing to do when you see someone doing something so questionable, but I would not expect to be well recieved.

 

[Pamola]

There is quite a bit of good information regarding the actual situation and events involved in this accident. Ther's also good information regarding how not to let it happen to you. But more than anything else, there seems to be criticism and anger toward the people involved. As more experienced hikers, it's our duty to help prevent situations like this, not condemn it and them when it happens. It will happen.

When the obit's published, I really hope there's a little more empathy on this thread.

 

[--M.]

The few times I have tried to say something, or have seen others offer advice have not gone over in a positive way - the one exception being when a hiker sees me or another and asks advice or a question...

I probably would always say something because it is the right thing to do when you see someone doing something so questionable, but I would not expect to be well recieved.

But that's okay!

My first reaction to reading these kinds of stories is "How can these situations be prevented from EVER happening again...?"

And then I realize that this is an impossible dream. There will always be someone (or some four) who, for whatever reason, must find themselves in such a predicament.

What CAN be done is to mitigate and reduce the frequency of them by general education (including discussion boards like these), signage, helpful comments by passers-by, tomes like "Not Without Peril," et cetera.

I don't have too many negative things to say about the victims, despite the possibility that they victimized themselves. I have a life full of experiences doing things that I called 'dumb' in retrospect, and it reminds me of the old saw that one hopes one's bag of experience fills up before his/her bag of luck runs out.

It's great if AMC staff or other hikers look out for us; it's great when recipients of such queries respond positively; it's too bad when they don't. In then end, we're responsible for our own behavior, and these four are paying (maybe too dearly) for what may be a couple of ill-informed decisions.

I also really appreciate the delivery of fact-based news in these discussions, as they ground the talk with reality. I'm interested to hear how this plays out, would love to hear an informed interview or something like that, so that the price they paid may be mitigated by a reduction in the frequency of recurrence later on by someone else. The tv reporter (whose name escapes me) who got lost and did a news story on it perhaps really helped a lot of people who then found themselves similarly afflicted.

 

[SAR-EMT40]

The few times I have tried to say something, or have seen others offer advice have not gone over in a positive way - the one exception being when a hiker sees me or another and asks advice or a question...

I probably would always say something because it is the right thing to do when you see someone doing something so questionable, but I would not expect to be well recieved.

I have offered unsolicited advice one time on the mountain. An idiot post holing in snow near the perch in sneakers and shorts and t-shirt. Snow above his ankles. I mentioned in a polite way that people have died dressed like he was up here and that it may be wise to turn around in case the weather gets bad. Without a break in his post holing stride he gave me a friendly “f**k you” as he passed me. Thus ended any more attempts, by me, to give unsolicited advice. Bottom line, he probably lived so I guess that makes him right. It was none of my business. It also gave me a chance to judge his mental status. He was a moron but I can’t treat that. But, if I have to rescue that idiot, he would have definitely gotten an “I told you so”.

I now follow the rule, “never give advice. Wise men don't need it and fools won't heed it”.

I can honestly say it is now going on 15 years without me giving unsolicited advice in the mountains.

Oh yeah. One slip in those 15 years. I did warn that Boy scout troop about the flood warnings. They didn't listen either.

Keith

 

[SteveHiker]

The few times I have tried to say something, or have seen others offer advice have not gone over in a positive way - the one exception being when a hiker sees me or another and asks advice or a question...

I probably would always say something because it is the right thing to do when you see someone doing something so questionable, but I would not expect to be well recieved.

I usually don't say anything either when I see something questionable. I suspect many others are the same way. It can be hard to tell from outward appearances if someone knows what they are doing or not. As annoying as it can to have someone ask you all the time, I think it would be much harder to live with myself if I didn't ask, and then later read something like this happened.

on the rare occasion when I do question someone, I try to be as non-confrontational as possible. Back in July, while heading across Gulfside towards Jewell rather late in the afternoon I saw a guy coming towards me, heading up. I wouldn't have worried too much about him, but then I noticed a girl of about 7 or 8 traipsing along behind him. They had maybe a small bottle of water between them (might have had more, can't remember now). Since there is a parking lot up there, I figured they were headed back to a car, but decided to make sure. Went a little like this: "Nice day, huh?", "yep sure is", "where ya headed?" "back to the car." "cool, have a nice evening." I'm not sure what I would have said if he'd answered differently.

 

[Tom Rankin]

I now follow the rule, “never give advice. Wise men don't need it and fools won't heed it”.

I've had a few friendly conversations where the people, usually women, ( ) have decided to turn back from what I advised them was a risky proposition. Never been F'd, so I don't know how I'd handle that, but I still chat with people from time to time. Maybe there are few folks in between wise men and fools!

 

[Neil]

A few weeks ago I traversed Haystack (ADK's) in blustery, wet weather that made me stagger off the mountain like a drunk while the rain pelted me.

Not too far above tree line I met up with 2 guys who were obviously underdressed and not equipped to go any further.

They wanted to know what it was like up there and I said it was "really fu**ing cold and windy". Then I pointedly asked the packless, gym clothing clad guys if they had any gear. They turned around and went down. Who knows, maybe I did a good deed.

 

[DougPaul]

Its tough--sometimes you can pass on friendly warnings, sometimes not. How you actually do it can have a significant effect on how it will be received--the more foolish the act, the harder it is likely to be to get through to the actor.

Then again, normal folks have occasionally given warnings to world-class greats... Read a case of someone suggesting that Alex Lowe wasn't placing enough protection on a technical climb--they were rather embarassed when they discovered who he was. And I watched one of the IME guides leading a climb on Whitehorse in tennis shoes and without placing any pro (I knew who he was).

Doug

 

[Mike P.]

I think everyone is sad that someone got hurt, was/continues to be near death.

That said, IMO I believe their is a hiking community of which we are but a small part of. (I've also been told there is no such community also)

Accidents like this happen when many decisions are made that are aggressive (or maybe better said are not made conservatively) that piggy back on one another. We were all beginners, a fair amount of us did Washington as one of our first hikes. We all probably can answer yes to all of the following questions:

Ever hike in the rain? (although snow occurs anytime higher % now Vs. July)
Ever start a hike after 1:00 PM?
Ever hike in the dark unintentionally?
Ever hike without your headlamp?
Ever hike in Cotton Clothing?
Ever plan a hike that was longer or harder than you thought it would be?
Ever hike without enough gear for an unplanned night out?
Ever hike without a turn around time or ignore it because you were close OR
Ever think about turning around beacause of weather but you were close to the top?
Ever think that rescues happen to the other guy I'll beat the bad weather?

Now, have you done all of these things on a single day hike in the Presidentials?

I still do most of these things, last Thursday started at 4:15 PM in Catskills, this Friday will start around 3:00 -4:00 in the Whites, the weather & time will dictate a destination though, could be Moosilauke in ideal circumstances, could be Martha or a Sugarloaf in rain & running late.

I do a Monadnock Sunset hike every year
The way I sweat, a soaked cotton shirt feels good some days

Most beginners (Most of the non-hikers I know when I say I'm going to hike Mt. Washington after 10/1 give me a, "are you nuts", the ones who know I hike a lot including winter don't - or they know I'm nuts ) have at least heard the tales that they have bad weather on Washington, they started at PNVC, while I guess possible for beginners to walk right on by, if you're curious enough to see what's on top, why would you not look in the PNVC & get a forcast, they were open at 2:00 or 2:30 in the afternoon.

While we hope these guys recover & keep hiking & don't have any more bad luck, learning something, gear wise, time wise or weather wise would be great.

I have not been on AMC's site & I don't recall seeing this on Alpinezone (yet rest assured) but if we can discuss, debate & disagree on ideas how to prevent even one rescue from being needed, we have done the hiking community a service. While this is my favorite hiking site for sharing ideas with other hiking fanatics & where I go with questions I don't find in the WMG or High Peaks Guide. However, as a closed group, we don't reach enough beginners, who might need assistance. (Agree with others though about fools not heeding & wise people not needing help) If we had open season on people posting we would lose a lot of the culture of this site & it would denigrate into the old AMC M&M board where only 5% of what you read was useful. So, IMO it's good to debate rescues & I wouldn't change anything about how VFTT is moderated. We should make sure rescues & discussions are on other sites, even Dave's Hike The Whites which I know many people see when they first get online looking for Whites Info.

(Dave, instead of great clear shots on the title page, maybe you can scare some people into thinking about bad weather hiking with pictures from the Bonds Traverse )

 

[Maddy]

Really? And if so noticed and an educational conversation had ensued, what evidence at this point leads one to believe any words of wisdom would have been listened to and heeded?
.

We don't know the answer to that question.
The "words of wisdom" may not have been listened to and heeded but at least you would have the satisfaction of knowing that you did your best to intervene (educate) . What good is knowledge if it is not shared?
What if by chance your words of wisdom were heeded? Lives might be saved.
Shouldn't we at least try?
What is the alternative?

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Maddy -

I spoke with the AMC staffer who had answered those hikers questions, and from what he told me - those fellows were given adequate warnings about the conditions to be encountered. Not to seem judgemental, but this incident appears similar to the one on Lafayette a few years ago in that hikers choose not to follow advice given by competent individuals.

 

[pilgrim]

Update from today's Conway Daily Sun:

9/27/2006
[size=+1]Hiker's near-death experience on Mount Washington spurs warnings
Fall outings can be among the most dangerous[/size]
David Carkhuff

...Gabriel Gauthier, 23, of Quebec, nearly died when he and three other Canadian hikers ventured up Mount Washington, unequipped for the fog, snow and freezing winds and rains that greeted them.

Gauthier was first listed in grave condition for severe hypothermia at Elliot Hospital in Manchester. He was upgraded from grave to critical condition over the weekend.

The Elliot Hospital public affairs office on Tuesday said Gauthier was listed in good condition. "Good condition" means a patient's vital signs are stable and the prospect for recovery is good to excellent, hospital staff said...

 

[Maddy]

Thanks Kevin. I am relieved to hear that they were given ample warning. It's all anyone can do really......try to educate the ill informed that they are walking unprepared into grave danger.Some will listen and others won't. There are those that will curse you and others will thank you. I think it's still worth the effort.
It's also been my experience that there are some individuals who might not heed the advice immediately but there is nothing like a good soaking and a chill to make them rethink your "words of wisdom" and turn back. In the past few years, this scenario was the one that I encoutered on the Tuck.Trail. A young couple from PA, first time to NH, were going to "climb the moutain". They had no clue about the many trails, snow/ice in the ravines (April), and were beautifully attired in cotton with light rain jackets, Nikes , and one very small daypack. The young man listened attentively to our warnings but not so the young woman. She was quite arrogant about her intentions to continue the climb. His eyes were wide as saucers listening to our words of wisdom and finally he said, "you really don't think we should climb this do you?" Affirmative!!!They continued on up and we went to HOJO's wearing our winter gear. Upon our return, we checked the parking lot first thing for their vehicle and it was gone. They might have abandoned their climb anyway but we sure did give them food for thought.

 

[Mike P.]

Sounds encouraging for Gabriel, that is good news!

 

[kamoore63]

I just saw this thread as I haven't checked the board in a week. I'm glad to hear that the hiker seems to be recovering. It sounds like they were all very lucky.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that the hikers were from Quebec and there very likely could have been language issues. This has happened in the past (and I have certainly encountered a number of hikers from Quebec over the years who speak only French, as I've learned from speaking to them myself - I'm from Canada originally and speak some French). I recall an avalanche in Tuckerman's in 1996 when one fellow died because they went up the Lion Head winter route when it was posted as closed due to avalanche danger (and was marked with several signs). In addition, they were told outright by an AMC person not to go up there but apparently didn't understand. And I believe there were also some serious language difficulties when the rest of the group called for help as they didn't understand instructions to head to the avalanche cache to get probes to start searching for their buried companion.

Not sure what the solution to that is. I've seen a display in the pack room at Pinkham in French and I'm pretty sure it wasn't there 10 years ago but obviously didn't do these guys any good.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I just saw this thread as I haven't checked the board in a week. I'm glad to hear that the hiker seems to be recovering. It sounds like they were all very lucky.

One thing that hasn't been mentioned is that the hikers were from Quebec and there very likely could have been language issues.

You raise a good point (I've been traveling too so haven't followed this thread for the past couple of days either). The AMC staffer I spoke with did made a point that there might have been a language barrier, and I neglected to include that in my previous posts. As he pointed out - he thought one of the fellows he spoke with understood English better than the others. And, as he pointed out, how can you ever be sure information is conveyed, especially with a potential language barrier.

 

[kamoore63]

And, as he pointed out, how can you ever be sure information is conveyed, especially with a potential language barrier.

Very true! I don't know how many times when I'm traveling in non-English speaking countries I've found myself nodding when I really haven't understood! Good way to get into trouble!