Measuring the how steep a slope is.

[CaptainJim]

OK... riddle me this Batman...

Capt,

I think the last time this was discussed (here), the consensus was that slope is expressed in degrees and grade in percentage.

I was at Flume slide this past weekend. In the steep section it rises 1000' in 1600' run. According to my calculations thats a 62% Grade (even though it looked damn near vertical to me from the front). Whats the SLOPE?

Capt. Jim

 

[Puck]

I was at Flume slide this past weekend. In the steep section it rises 1000' in 1600' run. According to my calculations thats a 62% Grade (even though it looked damn near vertical to me from the front). Whats the SLOPE?

Capt. Jim

The slope is .625 using the y=mx+b concept. or a 32 degree angle of ascent using the H/D=Tan theta

 

[CaptainJim]

wow

The slope is .625 using the y=mx+b concept. or a 32 degree angle of ascent using the H/D=Tan theta

Sure LOOKS a lot steeper than 32 degrees

 

[Puck]

Sure LOOKS a lot steeper than 32 degrees

Were there areas of extreme? where you went up verticaly 100' and traveled 10' horizontaly? Your measurements would show everything averaging to one big triangle. The reality is there are many triangles. At one point it could have been 20 deg, or 75 etc. it all averages out.

a 45 degree angle of ascent would be 1000' rise and 1000' run (100% grade and slope of 1)

 

[tonycc]

Sure LOOKS a lot steeper than 32 degrees

nevermind...

 

[SAR-EMT40]

Arctan (1000/1600) is 32 degrees. If the rise is 1000 and the run was 1600 feet then the slope is 32 degrees. If on the other hand they have it backwards and the rise was 1600 and the run 1000 then the slope would be 58 degrees.

Keith

 

[tonycc]

oops...
Original backwards calculation was deleted.

 

[CaptainJim]

Right here....

Were there areas of extreme? where you went up verticaly 100' and traveled 10' horizontaly? Your measurements would show everything averaging to one big triangle. The reality is there are many triangles. At one point it could have been 20 deg, or 75 etc. it all averages out.

a 45 degree angle of ascent would be 1000' rise and 1000' run (100% grade and slope of 1)

Right here...

According to my GPS mapping software the rise right here (3000' - 4000') occurs in only 1600' of run (horizontal travel). That is a 62% grade... don't know the formula for Degree of Slope... I hate math
Capt. Jim

 

[Puck]

Right here...

According to my GPS mapping software the rise right here (3000' - 4000') occurs in only 1600' of run (horizontal travel). That is a 62% grade... don't know the formula for Degree of Slope... I hate math
Capt. Jim

I posted the formula for degree of slope. yes it invovles some trig. How much can these maps and systems be trusted? If you were to treat the contour lines on your map as if they were real land marks and blow them up to scale they could be 300'+/- wide. So if you were to rise 100' with 20' run, how would that be represented on the GPsystem or a map? The caluculations show 32 deg and you had an easier day then you thought .
I have not been on this trail yet. It is on the menu for this season. I have been on the Owl's head slide. It is steep in parts.

 

[CaptainJim]

you had an easier day then you thought .

Ha Ha Ha ... ... Tell my legs that ...

I was dead after breaking trail the 2.6 miles to the Slide... I opted Not to ascend... no time. See post in Gen Section under "Looking for Kolflach Degre owners" for the report.

Can't wait to try again!

Peace Out,
Capt. Jim

 

[giggy]

captain - I think your right about flume - it certainly has sections more than 32 degrees steep. A while back someone told me the lions head winter route was 20-30 degrees - which overall - may be true. I just did it again last weekend and though I could be wrong - I would say this route is about 25-30 degrees for the most part (one you start going up) with 2 or 3 sections anywhere from 50-70 degrees. The upper part where you break treeline and go up that small snowfield -- I would be willing to bet that is 35 degrees.

This is from summitpost on lion head:

"There's a nice 70-75 degree slope for a good 10-15 feet on one section, but there's usually a detour that goes around it".

I love talking about slope steepness - so curious to hear comments on this. Not saying this is right - just MHO.

 

[Pete Hogan]

Get a "rise" out of this......

This is an interesting and very informative discussion. I apologize for my late response, but attached is a photograph of one of the steepest sections of the Blue Connector Trail from the Phelps Trail to the Upper Range Trail on a recent snowshoe hike to Mt. Haystack in the Adirondacks.

Any estimates on the angle of ascent?

 

[Pete_Hickey]

.... it certainly has sections more than .....

How small do you want your sections to be. I'll bet there are sections that are more than 90 degrees. Just pick 'em small enough.

In general, the slope/grade doesn't mean much to me. It really depends on handholds and footholds. Walking up a 45 degree smooth piece of rock is nothing like going up a 45 degree staircase.

 

[Puck]

This is an interesting and very informative discussion. I apologize for my late response, but attached is a photograph of one of the steepest sections of the Blue Connector Trail from the Phelps Trail to the Upper Range Trail on a recent snowshoe hike to Mt. Haystack in the Adirondacks.

Any estimates on the angle of ascent?

I measured the picture on the screen with a ruler. Rise is 5.25" run is 5.25" therefore it is a 45 degree angle of ascent. however it is closer to 80 degrees when you are telling your friends after the trip.

 

[rongon]

How steep is too steep?

This is an interesting and very informative discussion. I apologize for my late response, but attached is a photograph of one of the steepest sections of the Blue Connector Trail from the Phelps Trail to the Upper Range Trail on a recent snowshoe hike to Mt. Haystack in the Adirondacks.

Any estimates on the angle of ascent?

Hi all, this is a great thread here...

I just got back from a more-steep-than-I-planned-for traverse of Diamond Notch Hollow, going north from Diamond Notch Rd, in the Catskills (V-shaped valley up to Diamond Notch, south of the Diamond Notch Lean-to). Here's a pic of the steepest part:

http://home.earthlink.net/~ron_gonzalez/diamondnotch_032605/diamondnotch_06.jpg

It looked to me like the slope was 40+ degrees steep. I certainly knew that rolling off of it was NOT an option!

Having never used crampons before (I just bought a pair of 10-point AustriAlpin strap-ons), I wasn't sure if I'd need them, but I found that they made it easier to safely cross this slope than in snowshoes.

My question is, was I being really, really foolish? I was having such a great solo hike out there on such a gorgeous day that I pressed on -- which in hindsight was probably too dangerous. But I made it w/ no problems, near-misses or close calls. The steepness was a challenge, but nothing I felt I couldn't handle. What I didn't take into account was the possibility of an avalanche... (yikes!). I saw where a few small snowballs had rolled across the trail, but nothing larger than a ping-pong ball, and only in one, small spot.

Anybody care to weigh in with advice, opinions, etc. for this relative newbie? I'd appreciate it...

PS - I know I shouldn't hike alone... but it's so peaceful!

 

[CaptainJim]

Who says you shouldn't hike alone???

- I know I shouldn't hike alone... but it's so peaceful!

I do it all the time...and I bet if you took a poll you'd find probably 90% (or more) of the people on this board have backpacked/hiked solo before. Just know there IS additional RISK going solo, and you must be prepared to accept that risk (and the possibility of paying the ultimate price for your adventure). The risk factor CAN be lessened with the right training and equipment, but can never really brought to down to zero! That's the nature of backcountry hiking... accept the risk or DON'T do it solo.

Capt. Jim

 

[rongon]

Embrace the RISK!!

I do it all the time...and I bet if you took a poll you'd find probably 90% (or more) of the people on this board have backpacked/hiked solo before. Just know there IS additional RISK going solo, and you must be prepared to accept that risk (and the possibility of paying the ultimate price for your adventure). The risk factor CAN be lessened with the right training and equipment, but can never really brought to down to zero! That's the nature of backcountry hiking... accept the risk or DON'T do it solo.

Capt. Jim

Hey Capt. Jim (and onlookers...),

Thanks for your encouraging words. I guess I was responding to pressure from more "responsible" adults than I... You know, "Sheesh, you're crazy!" or "You're gonna kill yourself!"

I'm finding that if I go out there w/ friends, I wind up not doing what I love to do most, which is get waaaay out there (or at least as far as I can get in the available time) and enjoy the more pristine, hard to reach places. So I spend a lot of time alone...

Any tips for a beginner who wants to learn how to use an ice axe properly? Any book(s) you would recommend over others? Any info will be greatly appreciated, as this winter hiking stuff is still new to me...

 

[Chip]

NOTE: This thread is almost 4 years old so most have moved on...BUT...

In my quest for very local "mountaineering" opportunities there is a quarry I have access to and am considering doing some training/exercising there this winter. The Red Pyramid has a calculated corner angle of 32 degrees and a face angle of 41.6. Angle of repose for dry sand is about 33 degrees. So if I'm climbing a ice and snow covered huge pile of sand, I can assume the slope is what, 33 degrees ? thanks

 

[RoySwkr]

Angle of repose for dry sand is about 33 degrees. So if I'm climbing a ice and snow covered huge pile of sand, I can assume the slope is what, 33 degrees ?

If the sand pile has been outside awhile it has probably gotten wet and some sand has been washed down giving a lower slope, of course if there are trees and roots on top they may hold it together giving a steeper slope. Why not just measure it with a protractor or hand level?