Microspikes vs. Crampons

[Tuck]

Can anyone help with some basic rules of thumb for when full crampons are needed as opposed to microspikes? Thanks

 

[bikehikeskifish]

One data point (YMMV): I did all 48 this winter and never brought or needed crampons. I used microspikes probably 10-25% of the time and snowshoes 75%+. To be completely fair, I skirted the Great Gulf / Gulfside trail cheating towards the cog tracks because it was very icy. Icy enough that I wouldn't have been thrilled to be there in crampons either. Before the real snow cover appears (Nov/Dec) and as it is leaving (Mar/Apr), i.e., shoulder season, the chances of needing crampons goes up. Some trails are more prone to water ice than others. Above treeline is likewise more prone to ice than below. Etc. YMMV. My $0.02

Tim

 

[peakbagger]

The one time recently I wish I had crampons in place of my Hillsound microspikes was an Ammo to Washington, Gulfside to Jefferson, Jefferson to Jewell loop in March. I inadvertently left the crampons home. It was dicey in a few spots. I would have had more issues with Katoolas, as the Hillsound's do have spikes, albeit short ones.

I have done Ammo in early spring where the ice wasn't hard and the only thing that worked was full length crampons, microspikes would not have worked. Falling waters in the early spring is another one where the underlying boiler plate softens up in the sun, the stuff on top is slick but with real crampons bite down through it. My only real near self arrests were on Lions Head winter route in the spring when the soft layer on to of the boilerplate was even too deep for crampons.

 

[Tuck]

Tim, Thanks for your $.02. Also thanks for breaking out Carrigain on the 14th, we went up on the 15th. Tuck

 

[Snowflea]

Google "crampons vs. Microspikes" and you will find some useful information.

Microspikes/Hillsounds are fine for the majority of regular routes up 4k'ers and lower angle stuff. If you venture on to some of the steeper, hard-packed above treeline routes or steeper routes in general (e.g. Wildcat Ridge from Pinkham, Willey Range Trail from the south, the Chimney proper between the Osceolas, winter Lion Head, Abol Slide on Katahdin), full crampons are usually the way to go, IMHO. The attachments are more secure, and they have front points so that on very steep terrain, you don't have to French technique (basically keep your feet/points flat on the ground) your way up. Those little Microspike nubbins have scared the bejeezus out of me on a couple of occasions.

Some argue that crampons (and ice axes) are "dangerous if you don't know how to use them properly," but you won't know how to use them until you, well... use them!

 

[DougPaul]

Can anyone help with some basic rules of thumb for when full crampons are needed as opposed to microspikes? Thanks

The obvious answer is "when the ice and/or snow gets too hard and/or steep for microspikes"...

But it is accurate--such conditions can occur on NE trails and you will often not know until you get there. And sometimes, one might be able to force a route on microspikes but the risk will be unjustifiable. Falls on steep ice and snow can be very dangerous.

IIRC there was an accident a few years ago when two hikers tried to hike an icy trail above King Ravine using microspikes--one slipped and fell down the headwall.

Doug

 

[bikehikeskifish]

...thanks for breaking out Carrigain on the 14th, we went up on the 15th.

You're welcome! I needed to get that peak and had a crew willing to help. It was a chore, even with 6 strong hikers... 5:45 to get out there and 2:45 to get back.

Tim

 

[Framerman]

The one time recently I wish I had crampons in place of my Hillsound microspikes was an Ammo to Washington, Gulfside to Jefferson, Jefferson to Jewell loop in March. I inadvertently left the crampons home. It was dicey in a few spots. I would have had more issues with Katoolas, as the Hillsound's do have spikes, albeit short ones.

I have done Ammo in early spring where the ice wasn't hard and the only thing that worked was full length crampons, microspikes would not have worked. Falling waters in the early spring is another one where the underlying boiler plate softens up in the sun, the stuff on top is slick but with real crampons bite down through it. My only real near self arrests were on Lions Head winter route in the spring when the soft layer on to of the boilerplate was even too deep for crampons.

I made an attempt on Ammo one day this year and found out quickly how one selects crampons over microspikes. I didn't bring crampons and the hard ice was nearly impenetrable with microspikes. My personal observation is microspikes on crusty, walkable, semi steep trails will be fine. The steeps I would highly suggest crampons (and not the hillshound ones)

 

[DayTrip]

Can anyone help with some basic rules of thumb for when full crampons are needed as opposed to microspikes? Thanks

I carry spikes, crampons and snowshoes at all times and use a pretty simple rule of thumb: if I'm actually debating about crampons versus spikes then I should probably put on crampons. In my first season of winter hiking I was enjoying such a debate with myself when I took a nice slide and dislocated my shoulder. It's not worth chancing it for me to try and "get by" with the lesser option out of laziness or to impress anyone. The objective is to stay on your feet. I once used my microspikes on 100% dirt conditions negotiating a steep, slick mud trail descent that had no rocks, roots or any kind of solid objects to anchor on and was wet from rains.

I like microspikes on pretty much anything as long as the grade is not too steep and it is well packed. Descending on slick surfaces feels far more secure to me in crampons. And once the snow gets deep enough, to Tim's point, I wear and highly prefer snowshoes. They basically have crampons for traction plus they have the flotation benefit and televators to save the calf muscles.

I'm a solo hiker and far more conservative than most here on VFTT and I can only recall wearing my crampons 4 times over the past two winter seasons (roughly 110-120 miles worth of winter condition hiking). In each case it was on very firm snow (not ice) that my spikes were just not penetrating adequately for my comfort. I find snow balls/sticks to spikes too, especially when it is wet, and can render the spikes useless without frequent cleaning. If the ice is that nasty and that steep I am probably not going to continue on the hike or get into the woods if I can for stuff to grab onto. A lot of people use the mini-crampon options now but I prefer to have the light spike and the full crampon options and the benefits of each. Plus if you only carry the one hybrid version and have some sort of mechanical failure you have no back up option.

So I'm probably in the minority but I'm decidedly in the "better to have it than want it" group, even if I never use it.

 

[DayTrip]

One data point (YMMV): I did all 48 this winter and never brought or needed crampons.
Tim

I seem to recall you recommending the G10 crampon to me last year and showing me a photo of it in your gear photos. Were you messing with the newbie??

(P.S. It was an excellent recommendation. I like them quite a bit when I have used them).

 

[iagreewithjamie]

I'd say go with whatever makes you feel most comfortable.

Last week at Cardigan, the summit was very icy. I watched two people in microspikes and one snowshoer take careful, judicious steps while ascending, some with a little bit of balancing required, in order to maintain an appropriate "line" so as not to slide down the mountain. I didn't feel like jumping into "cautious step" mode, so I threw on my crampons and went straight to the summit (line be damned) with great confidence and no hesitation. Sure, I could've done it in microspikes or snowshoes and exercised great care, but I was in the mood to attack the summit, not vigilantly tip-toe up to the top.

Conversely, the sound and feeling a crampon offers when it scrapes rock is akin or worse to a teacher's fingernail on a chalkboard. Using crampons when its too shallow can damage your equipment, irritate your sensibilities, and actually break off the piece of ice you're clinging too.

But when you need them, those things friggin' rock.

 

[MadRiver]

You will get as many different answers as there are hikers. I personally carry both because it’s my ass on the line and I have run into situations where the crampons were the best choice given the conditions. I will give you an example of how having crampons with you can be critical even on smaller hikers. I was hiking Welch/Dickey this winter before the heavy snow covered the trail and I can upon the open slab area on Dickey. The entire slab was boilerplate ice with no snow cover. If I left my micros on and slipped, I would have gone for a fast and long sled ride down the slab. I wouldn’t have gone over the cliff, but I would have hit the tress going at a good clip. I’ll be 60 in April, so my super hero days of reckless abandon are over, that ship has sailed. I would suggest if you have both, carry both and then decide if you will need them.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I seem to recall you recommending the G10 crampon to me last year and showing me a photo of it in your gear photos. Were you messing with the newbie??

(P.S. It was an excellent recommendation. I like them quite a bit when I have used them).

No, I was not messing with the newbie - I have them, and I have brought them for some above-treeline hikes, like the Presidential Range and Franconia Ridge. For the two trips (this winter) that I carried them, they never left my pack (Madison and Adams - I barebooted the cones - no ice at all, minimal snow, and Franconia Ridge - enough snow for snowshoes end-to-end.) For all other trips (this winter), I left them in the car or at home. I am very comfortable and happy in my snowshoes In previous winters I have worn them in marginal conditions - could I have gotten by with spikes? Probably. They are a distant third on my footwear list.

Tim

 

[summitseeker]

Hi Tuck,

You already have a wealth of knowledge and opinions to weigh, but I thought I would offer my simple rule of thumb.

If the trail has pure ice (i.e. not crusty or mixed with snow) I wear crampons or Hillsound Pros (not microspikes). I typically use microspikes when I feel that snowshoes are overkill but I am losing traction. IMHO microspikes do not offer the same degree of purchase that a crampon will so when in doubt use them. Tim is right when he states that most situations can be covered by microspikes or a quality pair of snowshoes but ice fields and flows are a different story.

I hope this helps,

Z

 

[DougPaul]

As others have suggested, there is overlap in the three traction/flotation devices (snowshoes, minimal crampon-like (eg microspikes), and full crampons) and the line between when each is needed is blurry. However, if what you are currently wearing does not give you adequate traction to be safe, change to something that will give you more purchase. Also, think of the foreseeable way ahead and try to choose a device that will work for as far as is practical. (Changing footwear takes time and it is to one's advantage to reduce the number of changes.)

Also try to change before you need it if there is any danger at the changing place. I have watched a novice ice climber on the approach in Huntington's Ravine push as far as he could on steep crust before changing into crampons. He slipped while changing and slid into some rocks, breaking his ankle. If you must change in a bad spot, cut a big step with your ice axe to change in. (An axe is also a better tool to have than poles if you will be on terrain where a bad slip is possible.)

Note also that descending is generally more difficult than ascending, so if you find the ascent to be dicey, the descent will likely be worse. Make sure you have the equipment to descend safely or turn back.

Doug

 

[iagreewithjamie]

I have run into situations where the crampons were the best choice given the conditions..

I think this is the heart of the matter. There are two ways to approach your question: 1) Will I ever NEED Crampons, or 2) Will there be situations where using crampons is the BEST CHOICE given the conditions.

To echo Tim, all 48 can be done without crampons. However, there will be situations where they will be the best choice given conditions.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Your self-preservation instinct will probably guide you accurately. Mine has yet to force me to turn back for not having them. I have put them on in anticipation of conditions or because others have, and by all means you should practice wearing them before you truly need them. In the days before MSRs and Tubbs Flex Alps, I probably would have used them a lot more. I also tend to avoid shoulder season hiking mainly because I have other commitments (and other pastimes) during those times of the year.

Wearing crampons will, often, make you a suspect in a post-hole police investigation

Looking at it another way - the number of likely places en route to the 48 using popular/standard trails is a small number. Multiply that by a less than 100% chance of having hard water ice on a steep section and you get an even smaller number. Both numbers go up during shoulder season.

Tim

 

[Tuck]

All,

Excellent advice. Thanks very much.

Tuck

 

[MadRiver]

One additional point. Micros tend to get dull a lot fast because you wear them on snow and rock, whereas crampons are worn exclusively on ice, or should be. Also, you can sharpen crampons, while micros are a pain in the ass to sharpen, so we tend to just buy a new pair.

 

[DougPaul]

One additional point. Micros tend to get dull a lot fast because you wear them on snow and rock, whereas crampons are worn exclusively on ice, or should be. Also, you can sharpen crampons, while micros are a pain in the ass to sharpen, so we tend to just buy a new pair.

I submit that if one must wear down one's traction devices on rock, it is better to wear down one's microspikes than one's crampons.

In mixed terrain, it is impractical to remove and install traction devices too often so one is pragmatically forced to use them on rock. If one's microspikes become too dull, one can use crampons. If one's crampons become too dull, there is nothing that can substitute for them on more difficult terrain.

And while one can (and should) sharpen crampons, the points get shorter every time...

Doug