mooning the cog train on Washington

[SteveHiker]

I just gotta ask.

What puts more annual "greenhouse gases" into the atmosphere.

The Cog or the Auto Road.

If the answer is the Auto Road, does any mooning occur over there?

I'm sure the Auto Road puts out more greenhouse gas, not sure if there's any mooning.

But greenhouse gas isn't the point. Most auto exhaust is relatively colorless and odorless, especially when compared to the cog. I think most object to the large plumes of stinky black smoke. The auto road also does not leave coal all over the place that occasionally starts small fires. And you can hear that damn whistle for miles into the so-called Wilderness.

 

[SkierSteve]

The Cog railway is an abomination. I understand that its been there since Moses wore short pants, but the reality is it doesn't belong in an environmentaly sensitive area. You can be arrested for cutting down a tree in the WMNF and this disgusting dinosaur is allowed to continue to pollute and generally degrade the area.
In a number of western National Parks, even car traffice is being eliminated and replaced with shuttles and vans. As we all know, these are available from Pinkham.
I agree that mooning is crude, but the point needs to be made; there are those who feel very strongly that the Cog needs to die.
Thats just M2C, and to be intellectually honest, number 2 on my list of things that need to disappear are the AMC huts. Lets not get into that!!

 

[dr_wu002]

This discussion has split into two:

1. People arguing man vs. cog and therefore mooning the cog must be a political statement

and

2. People arguing that mooning the cog is just goofing around and in good fun.

I would agree with #2 -- just good fun. People mooning it might hate the cog but I think it's a pretty weak political statement to moon it. Write letters to you senator or congressperson. I can't imagine that if people constantly mooned the President of the US that much would get done!

And comparing mooners to sex offenders is ludicrous and not even a valid argument. You can't vomit up any nonsense and call that an argument.

This thread is starting to drift into "The Cog is Bad" territory and we know where that ends up.

-Dr. Wu

 

[David Metsky]

And comparing mooners to sex offenders is ludicrous and not even a valid argument.

I believe the point of raising that was to remind people that in some jurisdictions simple offenses like public nudity get treated as a sex offense. Like it or not, once you have a record for something like that you may (it depends on the jurisdiction and crime) show up as a sex offender with all that entails. I don't think anyone was arguing whether that was right or not, it just is. Something to keep in mind.

And while there are lots of people who despise the Cog, you have to recognize that there are lots (and I imagine greater numbers) who love the thing. Mooning the cog isn't going to change their minds, and the majority of the people on the train probably have no idea of the history. To them it's just some silly hikers doing silly things.

With the changes underway to switch to bio-diesel this whole thing just becomes more and more surreal.

 

[dr_wu002]

And while there are lots of people who despise the Cog, you have to recognize that there are lots (and I imagine greater numbers) who love the thing. Mooning the cog isn't going to change their minds, and the majority of the people on the train probably have no idea of the history. To them it's just some silly hikers doing silly things.

With the changes underway to switch to bio-diesel this whole thing just becomes more and more surreal.

I argued that people who do not like the cog-mooning are saying that mooning the cog is a political statement. Others, including several actual mooners, are saying that it's just goofy fun and does not necessarily reflect a positive or negative attitude towards the cog.

In my opinion, The Cog is stinky and needs to clean up after itself. That said, I still like it! Love it even. I wouldn't ride it at this point in my life but I don't mind seeing it. If Mt. Washington didn't have a road, observatory, hot dog stand and gift shop, I wouldn't like seeing the Cog there at all. But so long as those things are there, long live the Cog, I say. I personally wouldn't moon the Cog. As low brow as my humor can be (so I've been told), mooning isn't my style. And if I truly hated it I wouldn't moon it thinking that I was making an effective political statement. Whom would I be trying to affect? Mooning is not generally considered an effective conveyor of ones thoughts, ideas or political stances. It doesn't even communicate "F-U" very effectively because the person being mooned could interpret the action in a variety of ways.

-Dr. Wu

 

[giggy]

Don't moose farts contribute more to greenhouse gas than all of the above?

Maybe I will drop my shorts the next time I see a moose.

Since I am a metrosexual, I have a very well mantained arse. I routinely use the machine that hot blond chrissy from 3's company does infomericials on.

 

[Mac]

I'm sure the Auto Road puts out more greenhouse gas, not sure if there's any mooning.

But greenhouse gas isn't the point. Most auto exhaust is relatively colorless and odorless, especially when compared to the cog. I think most object to the large plumes of stinky black smoke. The auto road also does not leave coal all over the place that occasionally starts small fires. And you can hear that damn whistle for miles into the so-called Wilderness.

I hear ya. I just spent some time in the northern presis and could hear the whistle and see the smoke whenever I was on the south side of a peak.

 

[HockeyPuck]

This person climbed Mt Washington

As a hiker who has crossed tracks with the cog I always stride with a smlie on my face knowing that I made it to the summit with HockeyPuck power rather than steam/coal or gasoline. I don't have a problem with tourists getting to the summit via alternate methods, I prefer to walk.

Perhaps a revision to the mooning tradition is in order. I recommend taking off shoes and socks and waving our dirty, stinky, sock-fuzz filled toes at the train. Certainly this would be less offensive !

 

[DougPaul]

Perhaps a revision to the mooning tradition is in order. I recommend taking off shoes and socks and waving our dirty, stinky, sock-fuzz filled toes at the train. Certainly this would be less offensive !

Depends--are you upwind or downwind of the train?

Doug

 

[Hillwalker]

Ownership

I may be incorrect in saying this, but I believe that the right of way for the Cog Railway and the Auto Road are property of these entities and not operating by permit from the USFS. The reason I say that is that I'm pretty sure a citation recieved from a USFS LE officer ends up in Federal Court and not district court. The citation I saw was for a district court. Which means that it was issued by local LE or NH State Police and not USFS. If the right of way is privately owned, and the mooners are not on the right of way, but on federal land as they perform their act.....the citations may not stand up in court anyway. Just ruminating........HW

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I may be incorrect in saying this, but I believe that the right of way for the Cog Railway and the Auto Road are property of these entities and not operating by permit from the USFS. The reason I say that is that I'm pretty sure a citation recieved from a USFS LE officer ends up in Federal Court and not district court. The citation I saw was for a district court. Which means that it was issued by local LE or NH State Police and not USFS. If the right of way is privately owned, and the mooners are not on the right of way, but on federal land as they perform their act.....the citations may not stand up in court anyway. Just ruminating........HW

Tom - I think you're right as to ownership. IIRC, the Auto Road is private property to the summit, and the summit is NH State Parks. I believe the Cog owns to, and maybe somewhat above, the Waumbek Station, which is the reason their snow trail goes to about this point and returns, and IIRC they were unable to secure a permit to cross USFS land for winter operations.

Anyone know for certain on this?

 

[Breeze]

There are at least 7, perhaps 8 individual property owners at the summit of Mt Washington.

The Cog Railway, The Auto Road, NH State Parks, Dartmouth College ( I believe there are 2 parcels for Dartmouth, one as Outing Club and one as Education and Research), Yankee Communications, Mount Washington Observatory and WMTW.

USFS ..... I'm don't think they OWN anything at the summit, but they certainly have obtained rights of way and other permissions from all the other ownership interests.

I'm not totally up to speed on the new ( under construction) electrical service to the summit to replace the generator array that was burned to a crisp, but I believe that was all handled as rights of way, not as land purchased.

Dartmouth would like to sell their 2 parcels, there will be long-term haggling over that. Any changes in that regard may not even happen in our lifetime. Imagine the title search to the early 1800's? Rights of Way? Surveying?

As I understand the history, The Cog, the Auto Road and Dartmouth College were the first three granted land ownership, and I don't absolutely know the orders of magnitude or all the exact dates. All three of them predate the Weeks Act of 1911 ( which allowed creation of the National Forest System and the US Forest Service under the auspices of the US Dept of Agriculture).


As far as public perception goes, there is not a widespread understanding that private property issues even exist within the White Mountains National Forest.

Nothing could be further from the truth.

The reason(s) that the Cog couldn't negotiate ski trains to the summit had more to do with NH State Parks than any USFS mandate. NH State Parks owns the summit guest service building and is responsible for services and safety of guests and personnel. The State of NH and NH State Parks refused to accept liability/responsibility for Cog passengers transported to the summit in winter. Issues of fresh water, food, septic treatment capacity, emergency shelter ( perhaps overnight), and staffing the summit of Mt Washington for all possibilities from the NH State parks budget was totally overwhelming.

Breeze

 

[jrichard]

I sympathize with environmental principles of some of the mooners, but these principles can be realized in MUCH more effective ways. Are you really concerned about the environment? Then trade in the truck, eat vegetarian, etc... You really want a more pristine WMNF? Talk to a NH legislator. Ask them to require the cog to use cleaner coal. Take some practical steps. Figure out how much CO2 you've generated bagging the NH4000. Could you have carpooled?

If you want to generate real publicity, organize and protest at the cog base station. If you want civil disobedience, hold up "clean coal now!" signs in front of the ticket window.

Showing off your butt might assuage your conscious, but it does squat for the cause.

 

[jrichard]

I hiked up Washington with about 30lbs of physics text books in my pack determined to get some reading in

-Dr. Wu

It's quite scary to me that Dr. Wu and I share a common experience there! I didn't find it so nerdy though. If you didn't bring the books, how else would you get homework done on the weekends?

 

[dr_wu002]

It's quite scary to me that Dr. Wu and I share a common experience there! I didn't find it so nerdy though. If you didn't bring the books, how else would you get homework done on the weekends?

It was during the summer --- I didn't have no freakin' homework.

-Dr. Wu

 

[jrichard]

It was during the summer --- I didn't have no freakin' homework.

-Dr. Wu

Ah, then it must have been as a reference so you could ask the cog passengers interesting questions about tensor calculus?

 

[dr_wu002]

Ah, then it must have been as a reference so you could ask the cog passengers interesting questions about tensor calculus?

I think you're mistaking me for Kevin Rooney...

-Dr. Wu

 

[mtnpa]

Don't moose farts contribute more to greenhouse gas than all of the above?

Maybe I will drop my shorts the next time I see a moose.

Since I am a metrosexual, I have a very well mantained arse. I routinely use the machine that hot blond chrissy from 3's company does infomericials on.

Be careful it's rutting season

 

[marty]

Since I am a metrosexual, I have a very well mantained arse. I routinely use the machine that hot blond chrissy from 3's company does infomericials on.

Giggy on a Thighmaster. Kind of a tough visual right after breakfast

 

[jjmcgo]

Dr. Wu

Dr. Wu went up in a thunderstorm to calculate the coefficient of friction of worn Limmers on wetted lichen-encrusted felsenmeer.
But he slipped.
BTW, when are you hosting a beer night at the WWII club in Northampton? Or the Beer Museum?