more New England mountain lion rumors

[Jason Berard]

I went to a talk given by Sue Morse, of Keeping Track this winter, and she had two slides in her presentation that I found telling. The first was a "dots map" of every confirmed sighting of a mountain lion in 1990. All the dots were west of the Rockies, IIRC. Then, the same map, was shown, with data for 2000, and the sightings were in every state west of the Mississippi. I might have some of the details of that slightly wrong, but the gist is correct. They are moving east pretty quickly, and they will make it to New England in most of our lifetimes.

 

[Maddy]

I went to a talk given by Sue Morse, of Keeping Track this winter, and she had two slides in her presentation that I found telling. The first was a "dots map" of every confirmed sighting of a mountain lion in 1990. All the dots were west of the Rockies, IIRC. Then, the same map, was shown, with data for 2000, and the sightings were in every state west of the Mississippi. I might have some of the details of that slightly wrong, but the gist is correct. They are moving east pretty quickly, and they will make it to New England in most of our lifetimes.

I have heard the same from a most reliable source. He is a professor, works with and studies wildlife. It's his life's occupation.
It would have been nice to see some specific data as to why they "believe" the cat was domestic.

We can "believe" all kinds of things but I would like to see concrete proof and explanations given, not just "WE BELIEVE"....

Too many questions left unanswered.

 

[Mike P.]

I have heard the same from a most reliable source. He is a professor, works with and studies wildlife. It's his life's occupation.

I agree they are a realible source but I can easily take the cynical appoach here too. To keep his life's occupation, it's in best interest to verify the cat's presence. No wildlife except in zoos & his job is in jeopardy.

Insurance experts are experts on insurance & how to insure risks but they likely would be the first to be against some other form or risk transfer of mitigation.

Or a patient goes to a surgeon & a chiropractor with the same symptoms. The Chiropractor is unlikely to send the patient to the surgeon & switch them around......

 

[gaiagirl]

I went to a talk given by Sue Morse, of Keeping Track this winter, and she had two slides in her presentation that I found telling. The first was a "dots map" of every confirmed sighting of a mountain lion in 1990. All the dots were west of the Rockies, IIRC. Then, the same map, was shown, with data for 2000, and the sightings were in every state west of the Mississippi. I might have some of the details of that slightly wrong, but the gist is correct. They are moving east pretty quickly, and they will make it to New England in most of our lifetimes.

This is the exact reason why people should be skeptical. The fact that they HAVE been West of the Rockies all this time, and yet people almost never see them out there should be an excellent reason to question the majority of sightings!! And knowing Sue and the work that she does, I'm a thousand percent positive that she was not trying to claim that cougars are here and are breeding. This is not some cover-up people! There is simply no evidence that mountain lions are here as a breeding population yet. It doesn't mean they won't be, it doesn't mean that on very rare occassions one might not wander, and it doesn't mean that escaped exotic pets aren't out there on the landscape here in New England. Wow. I really don't understand this fascination or the conspirary theories, truly

 

[Maddy]

I agree they are a realible source but I can easily take the cynical appoach here too. To keep his life's occupation, it's in best interest to verify the cat's presence. No wildlife except in zoos & his job is in jeopardy.

Insurance experts are experts on insurance & how to insure risks but they likely would be the first to be against some other form or risk transfer of mitigation.

Or a patient goes to a surgeon & a chiropractor with the same symptoms. The Chiropractor is unlikely to send the patient to the surgeon & switch them around......

Trust me...he has plenty to do, in fact more on his plate than he has time for. He does not need a wild mountain lion population in New England to keep him very, very busy or justify his existence in any way, shape, or form.

Not today, not tomorrow... but in years to come, they believe there is a good possibility that we will have a breeding population" in New England. Time will tell. I doubt it will be in my lifetime but I can always hope.

I hope they have taken this sad opportunity to do a necropsy on this big kitty. If they did, I wonder if they will share the findings.

 

[Chip]

Wow. I really don't understand this fascination or the conspirary theories, truly

Well, it's not like we're talking about Bigfoot here. It's only been 100 years since they were here. They range hundreds of miles. Deer populations are through the roof. Coyote were NEVER here, and look how well they've done. We have moose, boar and bear populations expanding. At some point the conspiracy theory will be that they're not breeding here. Many obviously already believe we've passed that point. I personally don't see how it's that far fetched.

 

[erugs]

Well, it's hard to argue with that evidence, but once again, we have to ask 'how did it get there?'. The article says they "can roam a few hundred miles a DAY". I need to see a citation for that!

(And wow, the comments section of that article is more frightening than seeing a live mountain lion! )

Even my car has trouble roaming a few hundred miles a day, and that's with me, the driver, giving it encouragement, and the good roads we have to drive on, and the fact that we aren't shy about where we are.

 

[Chip]

Well, it's hard to argue with that evidence, but once again, we have to ask 'how did it get there?'. The article says they "can roam a few hundred miles a DAY". I need to see a citation for that!

Yeah that's wrong. I think a cat's "range" can be a couple hundred square miles, but can travel like 50 miles per day withing its range.

 

[Little Rickie]

. I personally don't see how it's that far fetched.

I think believing so many mountain lions are pets is far more fetched.

 

[Maddy]

Here kitty, kitty!

 

[sierra]

Recently after a hike, I strolled down to the boat launch at Echo Lake to check on the beaver colony there. While there a gentleman was taking his boat out of the lake and we struck up a conversation. During this conversation he mentioned that he was a retired hunting guide. While shooting the breeze I asked him his thoughts on wether cougers roamed the White mtns, figuring after 25 years of hunting he might have an opinion. He didnt miss a beat and said absolutely they are in the Whites, that many of his friends have seen them many times. I didnt push on specifics, but he did seem pretty dang sure of himself. Myself, I do not believe so, Ive hiked in two states that have cougers,CO and CA and in both states I have seen cougers, how after all my years in the Whites I have not seen one is the crux of it to me,not to mention all the other hardcore white mtn hikers who also spend a huge amount of time tramping every corner of the mountains and none of us have seen one, really, I need to see a live one or dead one to be convinced. In closing I will say this, I truley wish they where here, I really do, abosolutely magnificent creature to run into, although quite dangerous as I learned first hand.

 

[Little Rickie]

abosolutely magnificent creature to run into, although quite dangerous as I learned first hand.

Tease. What's the story?

 

[sierra]

Ok since you asked. while hiking the Crags route on Pikes peak solo, I happen to get a feeling something wasnt right. I was above treeline at about 12,800ft and stopped to look around, at first nothing so I kept walking. More bad feelings, looked again and saw at about 75 yards a lion crouched behind a rock. I walked more and as I did he slowly followed me, hugging the ground as he crept closer and closer to me. Ok I was a bit nervous, this Lion wasnt small maybe 125lbs or so. I went over a few senarios in my head and unpacked my knife. luckely unlike alot of hikers my knife is not small, you might say its big. I figured he would leave the ground maybe 8ft from me and I would have one chance to pierce his heart. At this point he had closed to 45 yards. I stopped walking, I wasnt going to outwalk him. I thought about the Lion and what he was thinking, obviously he thought I could be dinner. I decided to do what no dinner would do. I slid my knife into my waistbelt ( unsheithed)and held my trekking poles over my head. Then I ran at him at full speed banging my poles together and yelling like a friggin madman. He stood up,his eyes where wide open and his ears where standing straight up, he turned on a dime and ran. I stopped and watched him head for treeline, once sure he was gone, I headed for the summit.

 

[Tom Rankin]

yelling like a friggin madman.

Ayup!

Gutsy move, glad it worked!

 

[Maddy]

Awesome story Sierra.
Not giving in to fear and hysteria that might have paralyzed you was very smart move. Good thing you caught site of h/her early on. Those big cats mean business...but so you! Happy you can share your experience with us.

 

[sierra]

Awesome story Sierra.
Not giving in to fear and hysteria that might have paralyzed you was very smart move. Good thing you caught site of h/her early on. Those big cats mean business...but so you! Happy you can share your experience with us.

Thank you Maddy,
I think its very important to think when you encounter wildlife that can be dangerous. I have no doubt that in that situation that if I panicked and ran I would have been done in. When animals are encountered, knowledge and appreciation of just what the animal is thinking is crucial to a positive outcome. I have had bear encounters where yelling and stick throwing have scared them off ( bear is either roaming or feeding) other bear encounters where they will not leave and become aggressive ( cubs close by). In the first instance you may shoo them and continue on, the second senario requires you to retreat right away and forgoe your route. By the way, Im glad my lion encounter ended the way it did, I would never want to kill such a creature, just magnificent.

 

[Chip]

Big Cat Activist (Phd, local resident) gives own theory.

Rabinowitz holds a Ph.D. in wildlife ecology and headed the science and exploration division of the Bronx Zoo-based Wildlife Conservation Society for almost 30 years. He's now chief executive officer of Panthera, an international organization dedicated to protecting wild cats.

Based on his own observation of a "big cat track" in Clarence Fahnestock State Park ("It wasn't a bobcat track," he said) and the recurring reports of mountain lions in Putnam and beyond, the Mahopac expert discounts the explanation that every mountain lion supposedly wandering the wilder fringes of suburbia is a formerly captive animal.

"What I believe is there is a small population or small number of wild mountain lions out there, mountain lions that clearly in the past have been held in captivity, who are maintaining themselves and breeding," he said.

 

[Chip]

Necropsy being done today here on the cat. This may be able to determine if the cat was recently released from captivity, ever treated by a vet, the same cat as was seen in Greenwich (confirmed scat collected there) and if it was a North or South American.

Obviously the results will be "suspect" depending on which side of the conspiracy you're aligned with . Could be interesting, regardless.

 

[Little Rickie]

People won't let facts stand in the way of what the believe.

 

[funkyfreddy]

I'm surprised that no one has voiced my favorite conspiracy theory yet regarding NE cougars.....

It's obvious to me that cougars with genes from South America but found in the Northeast weren't household pets..... No...... they were abducted by aliens with the collusion of the CIA/DEC/etc and deposited into Northeastern forests.... Just look at a map correlating mountain lion and UFO sightings and you will see that this theory is sound