Mountain Lion in Pawtuckaway - Let the debate begin

[chomp]

OK, so I'm claiming that I just saw a mountain lion in Pawtuckaway SP.

First, let me say that before tonight there was no way I thought they were this far south in NH. In fact, I'd say that if they were here, they would be up in Coos County, north of the Whites.

Here is what I saw. Walking on one of the many wide woods roads in the park, around 7:45, this large golden cat came out of the woods onto the road about 50 feet in front of me. It was very similar in size to a dog that I know well that clocks in between 35-40 lbs. It was solid golden in color. It had large haunches and a long tail.

When it "ran" away, it more jumped than ran. Its large hing legs were very visible when it retreated. I was, unfortunately, unable to get a photo or to find any prints.

Well, I'm up for any explanations of what I saw if it WASN'T a mountain lion. But this was one large, golden cat.

 

[sardog1]

Having met you and eaten one of your burgers, I'm inclined to believe you, particularly because you weren't at Barnes Field enjoying a cold one at the time.

Can you provide a more precise location, preferably by PM to me? It would be interesting to get over there with a dog and see what could be found for scat, track sign, etc.

 

[Steve-o]

The debate is probably over at Freddy's " more new england mountain lion rumors " thread. 2 years old and still going strong!

That must have been a great experience!

 

[escapee]

Central NY big cat

About 8 years ago, I was paddling on the West Branch of the Tioughnioga River, in Cortland County, New York, above where it feeds into Goodale Lake and Upper Little York Lake. This is a valley of farmland, with a lot of wooded hills on either side. We were going upstream, around a tight bend. My bow paddler said, "Mike, did you see that?". I hadn't, being just a little too far behind coming around the bend. She described a big cat which had just crossed the stream ahead of us. About the height of a big dog; tawny, washed-out-looking coat; long tail. Tufted ears? No. Spotted coat? No. Maybe a dog or coyote? Definitely a cat. We paddled to the bank where the critter had gone into the woods, and found its tracks in the mud. No visible claw marks (cats' claws are usually retracted when walking). I put my index and middle fingers, first to second knuckle, in the heel pad without touching the edges, so more than 1 7/8" diameter. I later checked a field tracking manual, which says that 1 5/8" and under is usually a bobcat, while 1 3/4" and greater is usually a mountain lion. This was within a half mile of the rest area on the north-bound side of I-81 near Preble. When I mentioned this to my adult daughter, she said, "Now do you believe me?", and reminded me of a time, years before, when still in middle school, she said she saw a cat the size of the neighbors' yellow lab crossing the road near our suburban home a few miles from Syracuse. At the time, I thought it was likely a dog or a coyote, just possibly a bobcat. Now I wonder.

 

[Stash]

Potential sightings in Maine too...

http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story.php?id=264893&ac=PHnws

(Need to scroll to the 3rd story).

 

[w7xman]

There is a suprising amount of open space both in and around Pawtuckaway, as there are easy connections to both Bear Brook and the almost adjacent newly established Mulligan Woods. The area is huge, and full of deer. I've long thought that I were to put a Mountain Lion anywhere in the state...it would be Dixville, or strangely Pawtuckaway.

I've seen a mountain lion in places that they weren't supposed to be (Blue Ridge) and know they cover huge amounts of territory and ground...and also know that they are rather imistakable with a good look...so, well, here we are!

Lets try to get some sign or track...

 

[Isis]

Bobcats have been sighted in the area.

http://www.nhfishandwildlife.com/assets/worddocs/theghostsamongstus.doc

 

[Barbarossa]

I poked around on Wikipedia and noticed some details that stood out

Here is what I saw. Walking on one of the many wide woods roads in the park, around 7:45, this large golden cat came out of the woods onto the road about 50 feet in front of me.

It is secretive and crepuscular, being most active around dawn and dusk.

When it "ran" away, it more jumped than ran. Its large hind legs were very visible when it retreated.

Cougars have large paws and proportionally the largest hind legs in the cat family.

It was very similar in size to a dog that I know well that clocks in between 35-40 lbs. It was solid golden in color. It had large haunches and a long tail.

Is that a typo on the weight? 135 is cougar range, 35 is more bobcat size.

 

[sardog1]

The reported small size does not dissuade me. It may be that chomp saw the Ghost on this occasion because this particular kitty was a young'un, as evidenced by its seeming incaution in showing itself and by its size. Mebbe it recently got large enough and unruly enough to be set loose from its bondage as someone's pet. Or mebbe Mom was also nearby, watching the young'un AND chomp . . .

(Now there's a VFTT handle that might need rethinking after this encounter. )

 

[chomp]

The weight of the thing I saw is the biggest problem with it being a mountain lion from what I can tell. I was telling the story to my father this morning, and said that it was about the size if his dog. He responded "You saw a 60 lb cat?" So I guess the size/weight of the cat I saw is what I have the least amount of good information.

Still, from what I read about cougars/mountain lions, this was small in comparison. It had to have been less than 100 lbs for sure.

 

[Andrew]

Sardog

If you do go look for clues, see if any hair can be found and send some to F&G. Lindsay was just asked to test a clump from a Hancock, NH sighting with photo, and her conclusion leaned more heavily towards bobcat.

 

[sardog1]

Yeah, hair will be pretty tough this week with the weather, unless I find a rub. I'm focusing more on scat and track evidence in this instance, probably.

 

[Mattl]

The tough question on this is wild or released from captivity. Being in Southern NH, this would bold well for both of these theories. I believe it is a Mountain Lion from the description, so I think that part of the debate is easier to solve. They are very secretive animals, so there could be a small breeding population here. Or someone is raising a few and letting them go. If I would guess I would probably picking the second choice looking at the closest populations. It takes a certain number of animals to breed without inbreeding. I think if an animal did come back to New England first, it would be the the wolf. They have active populations just over the border.

-Mattl

 

[Jim lombard]

There's a nice mountain lion exhibit at the Squam Lake science center in Holderness. We were just there with my daughter. The bobcat exhibit is nearby and there is no mistaking these two cats. The lions are much bigger, longer and leaner with a very long tail. That would be an amazing sighting, I live about 15 minutes from Pawtuckaway and frequently visit the park. I've seen deer and an eagle once but nothing like that!

 

[nartreb]

Young cougar cubs actually have (somewhat faint) dark spots in their coat, also black markings on the muzzle and above the eyes which are basically absent in adults. I'm not sure at what age/weight those fade away.

 

[sardog1]

Young cougar cubs actually have (somewhat faint) dark spots in their coat, also black markings on the muzzle and above the eyes which are basically absent in adults. I'm not sure at what age/weight those fade away.

Most sources I've consulted indicate the spots have substantially faded by age six months. E.g., the excellent Puma Field Guide from The Cougar Network indicates that spots start to fade at 3-4 months but may remain visible in the underfur up until a year or so. And then there's this from the same source for us to ponder:
"Subadult females often stay near or within the home area of the mother. Subadult males more often move away from the range of their mother, and have been known to establish home areas up to 300 miles from their birthplace."

 

[mtnpa]

(Now there's a VFTT handle that might need rethinking after this encounter. )

Might have to call him Chomped

 

[Chip]

The tough question on this is wild or released from captivity. -Mattl

This question always comes up. I always think "Does it matter ?"
I guess the idea is that a released cougar probably won't survive or breed ? 22 turkey were released in CT in 1975 and now there are probably 50 to 100,000. It'll be interesting to see what happens with the big cats. Hopefully there are enough deer to keep their bellies full.

 

[roadtripper]

Here's a good picture comparison of mountain lion & bobcat for those interested...

http://mdc.mo.gov/nathis/mammals/mlion/images/mlion_bobcat.jpg

 

[roadtripper]

And when is NH F&G going to hire Forestgnome to find & photograph a mountain lion???