mountaineer snowshoes

[BethW]

I'm considering buying another pair of snowshoes. I currently own the Atlas 10 series (2009) and I thought they worked OK but when I do group hikes my snowshoes are frowned upon. Info that might be helpful: I'm 5'4", 120 pounds without winter gear, I hike the white mountains, so steep climbs and descents. I don't know if my snowshoes are really not adequate (as my hiking buddies seem to indicate) or if it's more about status/fashion/gear-of-the-day phenomenon. I DO want to have the safest and best equipment available as I mostly hike solo these days.

 

[Tom Rankin]

You are the target market for the MSR Lightning Ascents.

 

[jfb]

I've had a pair of Atlas 1025 snowshoes for a several years and never had a problem. I like that I can back up easily if I have to. There might be better shoes available these days, but I have no reason to change. My car is 12 years old and my house is 45 years old. I don't have granite countertops or stainless steel appliances either.

It's not about the equipment, it's about what you do with the equipment.

 

[BethW]

You are the target market for the MSR Lightning Ascents.

Thanks - I will look into these.

 

[BethW]

I've had a pair of Atlas 1025 snowshoes for a several years and never had a problem. I like that I can back up easily if I have to. There might be better shoes available these days, but I have no reason to change. My car is 12 years old and my house is 45 years old. I don't have granite countertops or stainless steel appliances either.

It's not about the equipment, it's about what you do with the equipment.

Funny. That's the way I think too. I would slip in my Atlas' sometimes - but then I'm pretty sure I'd have slipped in any snowshoe. Since my sister has absconded with my Atlas snowshoes I thought I might try another type rather than press for their return.

 

[sardog1]

Friends don't let friends go into the mountains with the Lightnings: MSR Lightning Ascents R.I.P.

Some friendly advice: Buy the MSR Evos instead. At your weight, you probably won't need the extending tails most of the time, but get those as well for the occasions when you might.

 

[peakbagger]

If you search around on this site there are many threads on snowshoes. The reality is that snowshoes are mostly on the pack for 80% of winter hiking in the whites for most folks. If you predominately hike trails, then most folks go with smaller snowshoes that arent very useful for off trail travel/breaking trails due to lack of flotation. MSR Lightning ascents have a bit of reputation that they are somewhat fragile in the hands of hardcores, they are light and have great grip but they do seem to have some failure/weak points which is trade off for lightness. I have read a few posts where folks have swapped back to what are now MSR Evo Ascents in search of durability. The Evos do have the option of adding flotation tails but few seem to use them. I have lightning ascents and havent seen any issues yet but they do seem to be tad bit more fragile than the Evos. As usual there are tradeoffs, the LA snowshoe is lighter weight and easier to carry.

A general observation is if you look at the gear that various grid finishers use, its not the latest and greatest and tends to lean towards the more durable.I believe Big Earl and Sue use Denalis There is no substitute for experience and the difference between most technical snowshoes isn't that great. I did half my winter list with wooden snowshoes and survived and the many major trips in days past were doen with wooden shoes. As long as a modern shoes show made by a known supplier (preferably US)and they have a rotary pivot type binding where the snowshoe rotates freely relative to the binding and the binding incorporates a steel claw that protrudes out of the bottom of the snowshoe when ascending, the shoes will normally perform well. Heck Yukon Charlies (seen at Walmart) work pretty well although their long term durability is questionable).

I do recommend getting shoes with televators, they are great for steep slopes and one or two steep ascents will show their value.I am not sure I would trade up a perfectly good pair just to get them but it definitely worth it if you are buying a new pair.

Of course the biggest key to winter snowshoes is carrying them and using them when appropriate. Many folks leave them in the trunk and wish they had not or keep postholing up the trail. If you start out early carrying them, you will get used to the weight and figure out a good way of securing them.

By the way, the markup on snowshoes is outrageous and we are heading into the peak gouging season for winter gear. Unless you really need to gear this winter, you can buy these for at least 30% off in late winter early spring unless winter is a bust. You can usually buy off season rentals in the spring for 50% off.

 

[BethW]

Friends don't let friends go into the mountains with the Lightnings: MSR Lightning Ascents R.I.P.

Some friendly advice: Buy the MSR Evos instead. At your weight, you probably won't need the extending tails most of the time, but get those as well for the occasions when you might.

Yikes, thanks for the thread link. Very, very scary. The Evo failures too. I know any equipment can fail and one has to be prepared but 4 winters and lots of mountains with my Atlas with no problems at all. Am I going to get that much better performance from the Evos? I'm pretty nervous reading about all these MSR failures ...

 

[BethW]

If you search around on this site there are many threads on snowshoes.

searching for "snowshoes" on this forum yields dozens of useless threads and I gave up.

Reading your and jfb's posts I'm now leaning toward staying with my Atlas (to heck with the little sister who took mine. she's giving them back! : )

 

[iagreewithjamie]

I currently own the Atlas 10 series (2009) and I thought they worked OK but when I do group hikes my snowshoes are frowned upon.

That is nothing but sheer gear-snobbery at its finest. There are some people who look down on others with disdain if they aren't outfitted in the best North Face gear and have MSRs. You have to do what's comfortable for you.

I have Atlas 1030 snowshoes, and the things aren't just good, they're expletive good. I've tried the MSRs and thought their grip was a little bit better, but I think overall, the Atlas are more versatile. The large bed allows for some AWESOME glissading (try that in your MSRs), and the crampons are just as aggressive IMO. To me, the Atlas shoes felt a lot more sturdy than any other snowshoe I tried, and I've been able to use them in a wide variety of terrain. They are great at breaking trail, and have tremendous float.

I think where MSR people judge others is with regard to the track. MSR is the most popular shoe, so the track tends to be the width of two of those shoes. Atlas are a teensy bit wider, so it can be a little more work if you're on a narrow track.

But seriously... anyone who tells you that you should only use one brand of anything is definitely trying to sell you something. And I've found tons of people who seem to think MSR is the only thing worthy of being called "snowshoe", but I think its bunk. They're good shoes, but they aren't thousands of times better than Atlas or Tubbs. You're correct that the differences between the top brands is negligible, and all comes down to preference. Go with the gear you like the most, and let those you hike with frown all they want.

 

[cushetunk]

For what it is worth, I own the Atlas 1030 and have used them for many years. I think they are terrific. Of course, they lack some of the bells and whistles that might be nice to have, but they are certainly safe and functional for any White Mountain snowshoeing.

I have seen some Atlas shoes break but it has always been the rivets, or the result of slow abrasion wear to the decking. The rivets can be easily repaired in the field with a screw and nut, or even tied with cord. Because the decking is attached to the frame at multiple independent points, the decking would pretty much have to disintegrate to be beyond use. And, while perhaps it can happen, I've never seen the band that connects the binding to the frame break. Even if it did, the attachment is redundant enough that you could probably still walk out. In general, the overall design lends itself to patching something together to keep them working until you reach safety. This to me has always been a big plus for these shoes, especially for solo hiking.

You should of course upgrade if you want the newer, somewhat improved features, but I wouldn't upgrade just because your hiking companions think that the 10 series isn't suitable or safe.


edit: TL;DR - i agree with iagreewithjamie

 

[BethW]

That is nothing but sheer gear-snobbery at its finest. There are some people who look down on others with disdain if they aren't outfitted in the best North Face gear and have MSRs. You have to do what's comfortable for you.

I have Atlas 1030 snowshoes, and the things aren't just good, they're expletive good. I've tried the MSRs and thought their grip was a little bit better, but I think overall, the Atlas are more versatile. The large bed allows for some AWESOME glissading (try that in your MSRs), and the crampons are just as aggressive IMO. To me, the Atlas shoes felt a lot more sturdy than any other snowshoe I tried, and I've been able to use them in a wide variety of terrain. They are great at breaking trail, and have tremendous float.

I think where MSR people judge others is with regard to the track. MSR is the most popular shoe, so the track tends to be the width of two of those shoes. Atlas are a teensy bit wider, so it can be a little more work if you're on a narrow track.

But seriously... anyone who tells you that you should only use one brand of anything is definitely trying to sell you something. And I've found tons of people who seem to think MSR is the only thing worthy of being called "snowshoe", but I think its bunk. They're good shoes, but they aren't thousands of times better than Atlas or Tubbs. You're correct that the differences between the top brands is negligible, and all comes down to preference. Go with the gear you like the most, and let those you hike with frown all they want.

I'm keeping my Atlas'! Thank you folks for saving me $$. I honestly thought my hiking acquaintances knew better and that my safety was at risk. No one specifically said MSR - though it is true that they all have MSR snowshoes. Now, what to do with that $$ I just saved ...

 

[hikerbrian]

I used Tubbs Katahdins (very similar to your Atlas shoes) for my first 10 years of winter hiking/backpacking in the Whites. I switched to MRS Evo Ascents maybe 6 or 7 years ago. So I think I can speak to your inquiry with some accuracy. In short, if your Atlas shoes are holding up and you don't see major problems with durability, then you absolutely do not NEED to buy a new pair. Spend your money on something else. Your Atlas shoes will get you anywhere you want to go in the Whites, and anyone who thinks otherwise has been brainwashed.

That said, I personally like the performance of the Evo's better. I got them for my wife a while back and "borrowed" them for a couple of my own trips to try them out. As time went on, I found myself "borrowing" them anytime she wasn't joining me on a trip, so eventually I just got my own. The more aggressive claw and rail provide better traction and stability uphill and downhill and ESPECIALLY when traversing hard snow. And the Televator heels are really really nice. See if you can borrow a pair from a friend, then you can decide if it's worth the money.

Edit: wrote this before the above 3 or 4 posts were visible...@BethW, I think you're making a good choice to keep your Atlas shoes. Enjoy!

 

[BethW]

See if you can borrow a pair from a friend, then you can decide if it's worth the money.

Edit: wrote this before the above 3 or 4 posts were visible...@BethW, I think you're making a good choice to keep your Atlas shoes. Enjoy!

Thanks for the good info, Brian. Fortunately my Atlas' do have the heel lift - and that feature is a must! Just lemme know when I can borrow your wife's Evos. : )

 

[TJsName]

I'm keeping my Atlas'! Thank you folks for saving me $$. I honestly thought my hiking acquaintances knew better and that my safety was at risk. No one specifically said MSR - though it is true that they all have MSR snowshoes. Now, what to do with that $$ I just saved ...

My wife uses almost the same shoe (Tubbs Journey) and she loves them and has never had an issue. Sounds like you might need new friends, not new snowshoes.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

Here is a related general anecdote on snowshoes - you are not going to have big enough feet for it to matter, but some readers may. I posted this elsewhere recently.

Comparing the original grey MSR Denali Ascents to the Tubbs Flex Alp 24s, each of which has 1+ full NH 48 winter rounds over multiple winter seasons, I can say:

Traction - pretty much equal
Comfort - Flex Alp
Binding (in/out) - Flex Alp
Storage - MSR (lies flat, easier to carry on pack
Durability - The Flex Alp replaced a broken Denali, but hasn't the same mileage yet either
Customer Service - Cascade Designs/MSR has been excellent. Tubbs is currently un-tested, but I've heard they are not excellent.

If you have a large boot (mine are size 13 Columbia Ice Dragon IIs), you might be better off with the Flex Alp (and maybe the 28 at that) -- The MSR Evo Ascents do not allow my boots to pivot through the toe hole (making them unusable). The original grey Denali Ascent fit better, but still the binding material rubbed against the decking and wore out the binding.


This doesn't compare the Evo (doesn't fit my boot) nor the Atlas (never owned). There is something to be said for having an 8.5" wide shoe as noted above - the track is only so wide, most of the time. Also, while I generally agree with peakbagger, I will point out that I'm not in the 80% who carry snowshoes - if I have them, I generally wear them, rather than carrying them, even if the trail is tracked out. I find them more stable than the available light traction options.

Tim

 

[marty]

Friends don't let friends go into the mountains with the Lightnings: MSR Lightning Ascents R.I.P.

Some friendly advice: Buy the MSR Evos instead. At your weight, you probably won't need the extending tails most of the time, but get those as well for the occasions when you might.

I am sorry for all that had a bad experience with the Lightning Ascents. I had a great experience with them and I am not alone. I've had mine through 7 years of hard use and they are still going strong. Maybe MSR has quality control issues with them and I got lucky.

I once bought a pair of MSR Evo Ascents, tried them 4 times and decided I did not like them as much. I then sold them and bought a back-up pair of Lightning Ascents on sale in case my old reliables fail.

The reasons I prefer the Lightning Ascents (LA's) over the Evos are:

• My Evos busted a couple of brand new straps - never busted one with the LA's
• LA's work better for side sloping
• Prefer the LA's 25 inch size, which works well for breaking trail
• LA's are bit lighter
• The front crampons on the EVOs snagged twice on me when butt sliding, almost causing me injury. Never had that problem with the LA's
• LA's are quieter, as they have don't have a solid plastic deck

I know that many members on this Forum had bad experiences with the Lightning Ascents. On the other hand, there are others like me that had very positive experiences. Are we the exception to the rule? Possibly, but I will continue to use to use them until I experience multiple problems.

Regards,
Marty

 

[peakbagger]

Its good that the OP is going to stick with what works.

I bought new MSR lightnings for two reasons; 1. The usual snowshoe track these days are slightly skinnier than my tubbs track, therefore I ended up widening out the track or getting tripped up by walking on my edges, 2. I had a bunch of gift certificates at Beans and bought the lightnings as I felt that at some point that my close to 20 year old Tubbs would break. If the Lightings break, I have the beans guarantee along with the MSR guarantee to back me up but would probably swap for denalis once I confirm the foot opening issue.

I am pretty picky about when I use the shoes. If its rocky or near treeline, I try to avoid snowshoes as its hard on the shoes to inadvertently bridge rocks and in general walk on rocks. This apparently isn't an option in the ADKs. If the trail is well packed out I also think it is equally hard on the shoes and would lead to fatigue issues on the shoes. It would be interesting to do a study if the folks who have snowshoe failures are using them more than the folks who seem to get longer life with a couple of subsets to compare ADK vs Whites to see if the ADK winter rules (skis or snowshoes, no bare booting) impacts the results.

All of my technical snowshoes don't glissade very well but my tubbs definitely are better.

I remember running into Unfrozen Caveman on top of Kinsman one day in the winter and he had new pair of snowshoes. I asked him how he liked them, he replied they were great and the warranty service was great as this was his second pair that winter. He opined that not many manufacturers would be able to build a pair that would survive his abuse which included climbing up trees in snowshoes and jumping off. I think Sherpa shoes were built for folks like UFC. Most have abandoned Sherpa's (long out of business) and gone to lighter shoes

 

[DayTrip]

I don't see much discussion of it here but I find Tubbs snow shoes to be very good. I have a 36" model (I'm 6'3 225 lbs) and the 24" Flex Alp model (a recommendation from others on VFTT) and I think they're extremely well built. I would have to defer to others on this site for longevity because I'm only 2 winters in on mine but as I recall the warranty was excellent and they seem very well constructed to me.

Of most importance, I find the Tubbs binding system to be very easy to use, even in heavy gloves, and that is very important in my opinion. Fumbling around with tricky bindings, especially in poor weather, is not fun. Tubbs appears to have a very full line of snow shoes so I'm sure there are comparable models for your height/weight and many of the features described in previous comments.

To someone else's point also if you can wait until the off season the pricing is much better. I got mine at Backcountry.com over the summer when they run 20% off promos fairly regularly. Link : http://www.backcountry.com/tubbs-fl...iYnMgc25vd3Nob2VzOjE6MTk6dHViYnMgc25vd3Nob2Vz

 

[mirabela]

LOL

Not much to add that hasn't been said, but -- Lightnings are *great* -- until they break. I've had the classic failure too. The trouble is, when they go, they go. Field fixes can be tough.

My backup 'shoes are Atlas 30 inchers in tubular aluminum, circa 1990. They take a licking ...

I disagree with the poster who says the 'shoes will be on your back 80% of the time. This probably depends on your weight and whether you are only going to tracked-out places, but I consider them essential, and I'm in them most of the time.