Mountaineering Boot Ski Bindings

[blacklab2020]

I will be starting to ski soon.

I will live near downhill resorts, but am also interested in backcountry access with mountaineering boot bindings (To conserve weight on climbs).

Can I combine both to save money right now. That is can I use mountaineering boots for downhill with the right type of skis/bindings?

Is there a type of skiing/binding I should be looking at.

Should I look at telemark? THere is too much to learn. Any suggestions for online resources would be appreciated. Google wants to give me a lot of adds, superficial sites.

Terminology to help my search/learning would be useful.

Thanks!

 

[Jeff]

blacklab2020 -
I recently went through similar internal debate and love my current setup with K2 Shuksan skis, Dynafit TLT bindings, and Scarpa Spirit 3 boots.

We went to Crested Butte, CO last spring for some bc ski mountaineering fun. My friend was on a telemark rig. My setup was infinitely lighter but that will vary based on specific gear. I use all this gear at resorts. Last weekend I was envious of a tele setup skiing with a friend who is one smooth skier. Asking which is better will start a religious war.

check these bindings out if you will trend on the side of ski mountaineering and touring vs sick descents (I LOVE these):
http://www.telemarkski.com/dynafit_dynafit_tlt_comfort_binding_w_out_brakes_48022_c382_p873.htm

 

[Chip]

There are threads here about Randonee/Alpine Touring gear. cbcbd did a really good job breaking down options in a recent one. I have Silvretta 404 bindings on Atomic Chugach skis that I use my koflach degre's with. The 404's are out of production but they can be bought cheap on ebay. The Silvretta 500's are the current issue. With my set-up I can ski beginner and intermediate down hill slopes with good coverage. Anything too steep or icey and you will not have enough ankle in your mountaineering boots and it'll get dangerous quick.

Here's that other thread.

 

[AMF]

If you want to do any mountaineering, I would not go tele... the boots have duckbill toes that are kind of awkward to hike in or affix crampons to.

 

[DougPaul]

blacklab2020 -
I recently went through similar internal debate and love my current setup with K2 Shuksan skis, Dynafit TLT bindings, and Scarpa Spirit 3 boots.

I think we should note for those who do not recognize the gear, that this is an AT (alpine touring = rondonee) rig.


In general, AT boots are better for mountaineering than are Tele boots. (The emerging NTN bindings/boots might be better than the traditional 3-pin derived gear.) And trying to use non-Tele boots on a Tele rig is not a good idea.

Using the same boots for skiing and hiking will require some compromises.

Doug

 

[cbcbd]

Thanks chip

First - You will pick your activity by the boot.
Second - At the current reality there is no one boot that climbs well AND skis well. Mountaineering boots give you sensitivity to climb well and have a good time while doing so. Ski boots will give you the stiffness needed to make good turns and have a good time doing so.
Can you climb with light ski mountaineering boots? Sure, but it won't be as efficient or fun as with your climbing boots.
Can you ski with climbing boots? Sure, but it will probably limit what you can ski and is usually classified as "survival skiing"

Can I combine both to save money right now. That is can I use mountaineering boots for downhill with the right type of skis/bindings?

Yes you can combine. You can have one setup of skis/bindings and use it with your mountaineering boots for approaches on climbing days. If you eventually get interested in the downhill part of it you can get yourself some ski boots.

Is there a type of skiing/binding I should be looking at.

There are a few options if you want to use a mountaineering boot on a ski.
The most popular is using the bindings chip mentioned, the Silvretta 404 or 500s. Those will work with a ski or a mountaineering boot.
But, I have also just found recently that you can also setup Fritschi bindings for use with a mountaineering boot.

Both of these bindings are made to unlock the heel for ascent and lock it down for descent.

Should I look at telemark?

A climbing boot won't fit a tele binding. If you go to tele you do because that is the kind of turning you want to do, not because you have to do. Tele is really a turn you can do on any freeheel binding. You can ski tour (going up and down) with fixed heel setups (aka Randonnee, aka Alpine Touring, aka AT). Plus, as mentioned, tele boots won't be the best for climbing because of the duckbill toe.


There is some equipment info here:
http://skimountaineer.com/EquipInfo/Equipment.html

 

[Chip]

Can you ski with climbing boots? Sure, but it will probably limit what you can ski and is usually classified as "survival skiing"

"Barely Surviving Skiing" in my case.

Yes you can combine. You can have one setup of skis/bindings and use it with your mountaineering boots for approaches on climbing days. If you eventually get interested in the downhill part of it you can get yourself some ski boots.

This was my strategy. Cheapest option to get started was the 404's with my Degre's. I researched the skis and am very happy with the Chugach's. I now also own Randonee boots.

 

[Jeff]

I agree with cbcbd about skiing in mountaineering boots. I was also on the path to get a setup I could use with my current climbing boots and couldn't be happier I chose against that. The setup won't do anything really well.

just more to consider...

If I just want to get to a climb on skis then I use a very lightweight rig of Fischer Rebound skis with a 3-pin binding, kicker skins, and a mid-range boot - just carry my climbing boots, I can easily deal with that weight to speed trade-off and can cover some fast ground with this. But if I'm really out to ski, then I just ski and have equipment that will allow me to have fun doing that.

here's a decent article:
http://www.ncmountainguides.com/essaybcgp.html

good luck! Ski Mountaineering is a beautiful thing.

 

[blacklab2020]

Thanks guys. This has definitely given me some things to think about and a place to start looking.

 

[cbcbd]

Right now my go-to all around setup is BD Havoc skis with Fritschi bindings and Garmont Endorphin ski mountaineering boots. I use them to tour, steep descents, powder, at the resort... And now I could also use them as approach skis with my mountaineering boots. They won't be the lightest things for an approach ski... but like I said - skiing with climbing boots is more about sucking it up and enjoying the fact that you won't have to walk down

 

[skiguy]

Part of your consideration for gear should be are you skiing so you can go hike/climb? Or are you climbing so you can go ski. Either way I would think you would be looking at going the AT route. Either way terrain is going to dictate your gear selection. Personally I can push an AT boot to climb in with the eventual intention to ski better than I can push a Mountainering boot skiing to climb. With that in mind you must realize that AT boots come in different flavors. They can be very much like a full on Apine, stiff very supported, releaseable cuff, with a minor sole change to make them a bit grippier to walk in. This variety is typical used for side country skiing adjacent to area skiing where one might be loopin out for a hit only to return back inside the ski area. The other end of the continuum usually is a shorter, softer, lighter and not as supportive boot although usually offering a full on vibram sole. These are usually used in a true backcountry situation where weight becomes more of a concern. Usually lifts would only be used if at all for initial access. Typically these boots donot perform as well on more demanding surfaces and angles..although the particular user's ability comes into play......kinda like sumu....he does it all on his jumpers

 

[peakbagger]

I am not advocating it, but a friend did most of the 48 in winter in a pair of NNNBC boots. He wore them even when he didnt have his skis. He figured they were somewhat warm and comfortable, and he would either have his snowshoes or crampons on, so the steel bar and slot wasnt exposed very often.

 

[The Lisa]

Thanks chip

First - You will pick your activity by the boot.
etc.

Well said by cbcbd, as always.
I have not yet attempted the marriage of mountaineering boots with skis (destined for divorce?). I love my Koflach plastic boots for cold weather and mountaineering but could not imagine doing more than mellow ski touring in them. They would be fine if I just wanted to save weight and ski the approach wearing them but on steep sketchy terrain I would want my AT boots, which actually are not horrible to wear hiking, with crampons or snowshoes.

On Denali I saw people skiing the 40-degree Rescue Gully and no way were they wearing mountaineering boots. I also saw skiers gliding effortlessly downhill with sled in tow, while we trudged along in snowshoes. If you are carrying a load of gear on that sort of trip it is worth it to bring the ski boots and use them. I bet skiing that Gully meant more to those guys than summitting.

 

[fritz]

blacklab2020

Just put together a setup that works well for me.
Silveretta 505, on Karhu guides, Kolflach artic expe.
My main concern was that i wanted to use 1 boot for all situations.
Ski approach, or snowshoe, climb ice, mild downhill

I live in Orchard Park.PM me if you want to see em
fritz

 

[cbcbd]

Here are some pics I took of the Fritschis and Silvrettas with the boots. Yeah, they do "work". This past weekend I lent the Fritschi setup to my climbing buddy and he attempted skiing with them. Well, basically we got passed by a guy on snowshoes because of icy or steep stretches where my friend had to take off his skis and boot it - it was just hard to keep an edge with this setup and his Nepal Extremes - Too soft an ankle on the boot to prevent it from rolling. Maybe it would've been better with a plastic boot, we don't know.
I had my Garmont Mega-Ride ski mountaineering boots with BD Stigmas and scraped through the icy sections with EC ease, style, and pride.

Anyway, another option that I considered for some time was short approach skis just for climbing. The Kong Grimpers are basically a short ski that, with skins, you can go uphill, and for the downhill you just lock the heel, remove the skins, and slide. Other options would be to get some used cheap kid's skis, some skins, and get some Silvretta bindings.