Mt. Adams=Mt. Jefferson? Historical question

[ow2010]

OK, so this one has been bugging me for a little while...

In Lucy Crawford's History of the White Mountains, the 1820 party that ascended Mt. Washington to name the Northern Presidentials is described:

"Mt. Washington standing nearly in the center of the chain, is 6285 ft. To the north, Mt. Clay next appears, 5011 ft; Mt. Adams, third to the north, is 5790 ft; Mt. Jefferson, 5710 ft; Mt. Madison, 5361..." [This is particularly interesting because the elevations of Adams and Jefferson are accurate to the names we associate with them today]

Also a bit intriguing, Crawford later mentions a view from Randolph looking south at the Presidentials...

"In riding over this road you have a view of Mt. Monroe, Mt. Jefferson, and Mt. Adams..."

To me, this confirms that the labels were not simply a typo by Lucy Crawford and that Jefferson and Adams were reversed (at least in her mind). Interesting also that Monroe should be Madison...

This description implies that the names of Mt. Jefferson and Mt. Adams were once reversed, which is supported by George P. Bond's 1853 map.

http://whitemountainhistory.org/uploads/1853_bond_adam_enhanced_2__NXPowerLite_.pdf

The map shows the mountain we all know as Mt. Jefferson labelled as "Mt. Adams" and the mountain we know as Mt. Adams labelled as "Mt. Jefferson".

Whitemountainhistory.org claims that "Bond intentionally reverses the labels of Mount Adams and Mount Jefferson because of a confusion over the names that predates the map and that the map did much to perpetuate."

My question is...was there actually confusion over the labels, or were they perhaps switched so that the peaks were in the correct order of presidents (highest elevation = earliest president)?

Sorry if I lost anyone in all of that

 

[RoySwkr]

"Mt. Washington standing nearly in the center of the chain, is 6285 ft. To the north, Mt. Clay next appears, 5011 ft; Mt. Adams, third to the north, is 5790 ft; Mt. Jefferson, 5710 ft; Mt. Madison, 5361..." [/i]

"In riding over this road you have a view of Mt. Monroe, Mt. Jefferson, and Mt. Adams..."

It seems that she uses the same order as present in the second phrase, note she said Monroe not Madison

In the first phrase I read it as Clay [first to N], Adams third to the north, Jefferson [must be the missing second to north] which also agrees with the present order

They did switch Madison and Monroe due to confusion about elevations

They did not name a peak for the next president as there wasn't one yet

 

[Lefty E]

Mt. Adams is third to the north after Clay and Jefferson, so maybe she was describing by height not order from Washington, and those reading should know Jefferson would be the next highest then Madison....and then maybe riding that road in Randolph, she might have described south to north , though saying looking south (page number please??), and did not mention the other mountains in between because we are all supposed to know them!! I don't think Lucy used the "pleasant" beverage of the day that led to the naming, by that group up there, of what is now Ike...and maybe the mapmakers had it wrong and mislabled the peaks...hope this is not out of the park...!

 

[ow2010]

The Randolph reference is on page 208 for me (chapter XIII). There is a note by the editor stating that it should be Mt. Madison, not Mt. Monroe. If that is the case, Jefferson and Adams are still reversed.

I'd never thought that she might be listing the mountains out of order in the first quote...makes sense. But that still doesn't explain the Bond map

 

[NH Tramper]

I have no answers, but interesting catch.

 

[Raven]

Ethan Allen Crawford's party named Jefferson and Adams along with multiple other Presidentials in 1820 on the first known ascent. According to The 4000-Footers of the White Mountains (Smith, Dickerman), there was confusion by mapmakers and guidebook authors about Adams and Jefferson that was cleared up in the 1870's. This is discussed in the sections on both mountains under "Nomenclature."

Hope it helps.

 

[peakbagger]

I beleive Waterman mentions the reversal of the Northern Predidentials Names in Forest & Crag.

Apparently when the first USGS maps were created for the region, there were several summits that reportedly were misnamed on the maps. They had the obtained the names from the locals but they were applied to the wrong mountains

 

[dr_wu002]

Mt. Clay should have been called Mt. Hamilton due to Alexander Hamilton's close proximity to George Washington both during the American Revolution and his first cabinet administration. Calling it Mt. Hamilton back then would have been more controversial than calling it Mt. Reagan is now.

-Dr. Wu

 

[dug]

My guess is Lucy followed an old, outdated link to a website that had inaccurate information. Or, possibly, there was a labling issue with Google Earth.

 

[blacknblue]

I beleive Waterman mentions the reversal of the Northern Predidentials Names in Forest & Crag.

I seem to remember that as well. IIRC (and there's a good chance I don't), they were originally named in location order as the chronological order of the presidents. I.E. Washington (1st prez), Adams (2nd prez, on what we now call Jefferson), Jefferson, and Madison (4th prez). At some point, the change was made to reflect the order of the presidents in the height order of the mountains, switching Adams and Jefferson. Of course, Monroe is slightly higher than Madison, though Monroe was the 5th president and Madison the 4th. Oh, to live without GPS...

 

[ow2010]

I seem to remember that as well. IIRC (and there's a good chance I don't), they were originally named in location order as the chronological order of the presidents. I.E. Washington (1st prez), Adams (2nd prez, on what we now call Jefferson), Jefferson, and Madison (4th prez). At some point, the change was made to reflect the order of the presidents in the height order of the mountains, switching Adams and Jefferson. Of course, Monroe is slightly higher than Madison, though Monroe was the 5th president and Madison the 4th. Oh, to live without GPS...

This is what I figured was the case. That's why I thought it was also interesting that she mixed up Monroe and Madison in that second quote. I will have to check out Forest and Crag.....any reason all the ones available on Amazon are super expensive?

My guess is Lucy followed an old, outdated link to a website that had inaccurate information. Or, possibly, there was a labling issue with Google Earth.

This was my next-most-likely theory

 

[peakbagger]

Forest and Crag is out of print and not many get resold so therefore the price is high.I think I have seen reference that it was available at some point in a electronic version.

 

[Quietman]

If you have a Kindle, it's only $9.95 from Amazon, published by the Green Mountain Club.

Edit: Guess you don't have to have a Kindle, as there are free aps from Amazon for almost all electronic devices including PC's and Mac's.

I'm lucky as my local library has a hardcover copy that I have borrowed a number of times.