Mt Tecumseh Elevation Article

[jniehof]

we're just climbing hills here, not sending a probe to Neptune...

I work in the other direction, but frankly, a lot of the conversation is surprisingly similar.

 

[RollingRock]

I think there comes a point in time where tradition starts to kick in instead of precision. It's been 48 peaks since 1987. Before that, I can understand the need for precision. I can also understand precision as to where the actual highest point is, for example, on Owl's Head.

I've hiked all the peaks in question whether being added or subtracted so it doesn't really matter to me. But the "NH 48" is so commonly used in the hiking community and recognized by those outside our region, I think it would be a shame to depart from using it.

 

[Mike P.]

If they take peaks off the list, will less people climb them? if yes, I'd like to see several others removed from any list....

 

[CaptCaper]

Got out my 1976 copy of the WMG. It lists 46 (and the list is in the front of the book, not the back). Galehead and Bondcliff are omitted, and Wildcat "E" is listed rather than Wildcat "D".

The 1979 copy lists 47, adding Galehead, and still lists Wildcat "E". The penultimate paragraph of the "lists" section notes "Galehead, with a new measurement of 4024 ft. becomes a 4000 footer."

I did a trip in 1978 with an overnight at the Guyot shelter then did Bond and West Bond, did *not* go out to Bondcliff (why would I, it wasn't on the list , stupid younger me) but then visited Galehead because it *was* on the list.

My next copy is the 1987, and that lists 48, including Galehead, Bondcliff, and Wildcat "E".

Didn't get another copy until 2007, and that has Wildcat "D" rather than "E" - when did they make that change?
The description of the Owl's Head path in that edition notes that "The AMC's Four Thousand Footer Committee will continue to recognize the knob where the well-beaten path currently ends as the official summit of Owl's Head."

Have they changed that? Didn't see anything in either the 2012 or 2017 copies to indicate they had. Any thing else I missed?

Is it the case that "most" folks that have "done the 4Ks" have done 48, including either Wildcat "E" or "D"? If that is the case, I think it is perfectly reasonable to say "we aren't changing the list anymore". It is also perfectly reasonable to make a change whenever new information becomes available. It isn't that big a deal in the grand scheme of things - we're just climbing hills here, not sending a probe to Neptune...

TomK

I like to take credit on finding out Owl's Head summit was off. In Aug of 2004 I recorded that hike on my GPS. Stopped at the summit sign posted and cairn. Shown in the photo. When I got home I checked and discovered didn't make the X. I had it planned and routed to that X but stopped at the sign. If I had checked the pre planned route while at the sign in my gps I would of found the X. Figured the sign was right. Ha. I reported it to a 48K committee member. I have many 48K hikes recorded and stored here from 1998. Did that once more on Cabot. Fogged in and fooled. Had to go back. ha. Didn't bother with Owl's Head. Not worth it. Not that anal.

 

[Stan]

...
My next copy is the 1987, and that lists 48, including Galehead, Bondcliff, and Wildcat "E".

Didn't get another copy until 2007, and that has Wildcat "D" rather than "E" - when did they make that change?
...

I'd go out on a ledge and suggest that it was sometime between 1987 and 2007.

My 1992 edition, the 25th, continues with "E" (4041'). My 1998 edition, the 26th, changes it to "D" (4050') and explains that the Four Thousand Footer Committee changed the list in 1998. Both editions list Wildcat at 4422'. Both are on the Wildcat Ridge Trail and if you hike it from Rt. 16 to Carter Notch, affectionately known as "the kittens", you not only cross them but A, B and C as well.

 

[Grey J]

How exactly did that work? The 88 would be pretty cool but the un-named 37 is even more intriguing.

 

[peakbagger]

Given that they were most likely using the 1921 series USGS maps I expect determining prominences would be quite the challenge.

 

[TEO]

But the history of the NH 4000'ers is precision, not tradition. Peaks have been removed and added in the past because of new surveys; there's no reason to change the practice now.

I concur. And while they're at it, shouldn't they de-list South Hancock? It my understanding that it has less than 200' prominence.

 

[David Metsky]

I concur. And while they're at it, shouldn't they de-list South Hancock? It my understanding that it has less than 200' prominence.

There are a few that should be delisted; Lincoln probably doesn't have 200' prominence either.

 

[Rob S]

The number was 46 until 1975, and 47 until 1980.

OK, I should have said "tradition as known in my hiking lifetime".

 

[skiguy]

And who wouldn't want a NH 88 patch?

Something tells me they hadn’t fined tuned prominence requirements at this point.

 

[Salty]

I concur. And while they're at it, shouldn't they de-list South Hancock? It my understanding that it has less than 200' prominence.

I think I posted most of this last summer but here's what I came up with for some peaks that I looked at, by brute force method (checking data points manually). As can be seen from the note in Guyot, it can be off, but I expect all of these numbers to be pretty close for the col depths (summits should be spot on, assuming, as mentioned in the article, the LiDAR point hit the true highpoint).

Tecumseh: 3994.6'

Bondcliff: 4262.8'
Bondcliff-Bond col: 4042.7'
Prominence: 220.1'

West Bond: 4517.5
West Bond-Bond col: 4301.8
Prominence: 215.7'
Another guy came up with 221.8' through automated data analysis

south Guyot: 4564.1'
north Guyot: 4581.4'
Guyot-Bond col: 4344.4'
Guyot-S. Twin col: 4361.9'
Prominence: 219.5'

Sandwich: 3960.6'

Lincoln: 5078.5'
Lincoln-Lafayette col: 4899.5'
Prominence: 179'

south S. Hancock: 4257.4'
north S. Hancock: 4246.6'
S. Hancock-N. Hancock col 4078.3'
Prominence: 179.1'

The northern of the two S. Kinsman bumps is higher by 29 cm.

Owl's Head. South bump 4025.38', north bump 4029.22' at 71.6049301°W 44.1444949°N. There is a 4028.79' bump just 45' south of that.