Mt Washington Auto Road-Does it Count?

[DougPaul]

For the case of Mt Washington, the auto road in the past has actively prevented people from hiking up or down the mountain via the road even in winter unless they have bought a ticket.

This is recent--only since the Great Glen XC ski area opened. They treat the lower part of the road as one of their ski trails.

I skied the road from the 4 mile mark (Halfway House?) back when it was still open. Nice run. (It was too icy above to ski.)

Doug

 

[marchowes]

Lets read this again:

For peaks with trails starting at maintained roads the rule is simple: Drive to the trailhead then walk (note that you are not allowed to use the auto roads on Mts Washington, Mansfield and Equinox).

They are not saying don't hike the road, they are saying don't drive up, start 20 feet from the summit then "hike" 20 feet to the summit. The sentence is referring to starting points, not hiking routes. This stops people from driving up to the parking lot on Washington, climbing the 100 or so vertical feet and then counting the peak as a FTFC hike (whatever thats worth, apparently a lot).

If I climbed Washington by the auto road and someone told me I didn't actually climb the mountain I would tell them where to go.

This is what its all about:

The basic rule is very simple: You must climb (on foot!) to and from the summit of each peak on the list. In winter skis and snowshoes are both allowed.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

The FAQ (rules) says:

For peaks with trails starting at maintained roads the rule is simple: Drive to the trailhead then walk (note that you are not allowed to use the auto roads on Mts Washington, Mansfield and Equinox).

Hey, I don't make the rules, and don't much like to follow them, so ... if you want to hike the Auto Road Rd and count it, then all the more power to you.

But ... as someone pointed out - what's to interpret on this one? It says "Drive to the trailhead..." and since there isn't any trailhead for the walking up the Auto Road, it's seems rather clear, at least to me.

Above all, hike you own hike. Pizza your own pizza. Whatever ...

 

[marchowes]

Hiking Auto Roads is OK.

http://www.amc4000footer.org/app/AppWM4.pdf

To qualify for membership in any of these clubs, a hiker must climb on foot to and from each summit on the
list (the committee positively scowls at the thought of hikers riding snowmobiles, mountain bikes, ski lifts, cog
railways, or in cars [on summit auto roads] for all or part of either ascent or descent, but regarding fine points of
peakbagging ethics each hiker is left to the exactions of her or his conscience).

You can walk up the auto road according to this document, which is available on the FTFC committee website. This is the official application document BTW.


I hope this kills any confusion so we can all be on the same page.

 

[dug]

Hey, I don't make the rules, and don't much like to follow them, so ... if you want to hike the Auto Road Rd and count it, then all the more power to you.

But ... as someone pointed out - what's to interpret on this one? It says "Drive to the trailhead..." and since there isn't any trailhead for the walking up the Auto Road, it's seems rather clear, at least to me.

Above all, hike you own hike. Pizza your own pizza. Whatever ...

Hey, now wait just a cotton-picking minute ... Are you saying these can only be climbed via a trail? What about a bushwack?

 

[dug]

I think it's pretty straight forward:

...you are not allowed to use the auto roads on Mts Washington, Mansfield and Equinox.

What's to interpret?

I've got to agree with Tim, these are the rules. Further on it says this:

Notice the use of the word "game". Games have rules, which may well be arbitrary, but if you play a game you should follow the rules. If you do not like the rules, you are free to define your own game, but must clearly differentiate it from the "official" game.

I hiked on the Auto Road once in winter, it looked like this:



KDT

If I can't use the roads, can I cross over them? Say, from Wamsutta to Nelson Crag? Do I have to hop it? Can I pole volt over it?

Where do the rules dictate that if I'm going to use my own rules, I must clearly differentiate them from the official game. If I'm making up my rules, maybe I want a rule that says nobody can know these are my own rules?

 

[Tuco]

Very recently I tried to apply the logic argument to this- and by the way, there clearly is an interpretation issue here- saying you are right alone doesn't make it so, imo.

It makes no sense you can't walk up the road to the summit, but makes sense you can't drive to the parking lot up the road and walk the rest. Is walking the road so easy it should not count? Do I not count Flume if I take the Osseo since flume slide was much harder?

And it does matter to people- heck, lots of patches and scrolls handed out so why is so wrong for people to ask and wonder? This is just conversation, I bet everybody who has posted has already done George anyhow, just curious.

Nothing wrong with laying groundwork so those who do care can be on an equal footing.

I for one am curious as to an offical response, and it makes NO difference to me- been there, done that.

And as always I expect to be wrong. Logic hasn't taken me very far

Have fun.

 

[hikrgrl]

There's a dice game with the Guiding Light Principle:

"During the game, players can (and are encouraged to) make up their own rules. The Guiding Light says that new rules may be added at any time, provided all players agree. The new rule always goes into effect the next time the situation occurs."

 

[Artex]

Giggy couldn't have said it better.

 

[Tom Rankin]

Giggy couldn't have said it better.

I always try to enjoy myself and have fun in the mountains. But I also like games where I can play by the rules and win!

This is just my opinion, but if I did do any climbs of any of peaks, and was publicly acknowledged by any organization as a member of theirs, I would not in good conscience want to have fallen short of their requirements. I had this dilemma with Cliff in the ADKs. I got to the false summit once, and turned back, thinking I had made it all the way. Later I learned I didn't make it. The next time up, deep snow and failing daylight made me retreat at the same spot, this time knowing I was not at the top! Aaaarg! Finally, I got to the true summit last winter and it was a sweet feeling!

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I think that the evidence is now well in favor of being able to count the auto road (Marc's pointer to the AMC application in PDF format at http://www.amc4000footer.org/app/AppWM4.pdf). Unfortunately, the wording there is different from the HTML-formatted rules in the rule section of the FAQ http://www.amc4000footer.org/faq.htm which has lead to confusion.

Until I read the PDF, I could agree with either interpretation, but now I am inclined to side with "the auto road counts". I am also in agreement with Tom in that you try and play the game (assuming you're playing the AMC 4000 footer game) in the spirit in which it was intended, but in the end, as each is left to the exactions of her or his conscience, it really is up to each of us to decide if the peak was bagged according to the rules. Yes, I went only to the "old summit" on Owl's Head, but my conscious is OK with that since the rules still recognize it. The whole thing is on the honor system anyway, and I am sure that most of 'us' (VFTTers) have played the game in accordance with the rules.

Tim

 

[bikehikeskifish]

There's a dice game with the Guiding Light Principle:

"During the game, players can (and are encouraged to) make up their own rules. The Guiding Light says that new rules may be added at any time, provided all players agree. The new rule always goes into effect the next time the situation occurs."

At my house, we call these "Amanda rules", except that only Amanda has to agree to the new rule Funny how they always favor her.

It is also a variation of these rules that make it impossible to bag all the peaks on the "Honey-Do" list.

Tim

 

[dr_wu002]

This is just my opinion, but if I did do any climbs of any of peaks, and was publicly acknowledged by any organization as a member of theirs, I would not in good conscience want to have fallen short of their requirements. I had this dilemma with Cliff in the ADKs. I got to the false summit once, and turned back, thinking I had made it all the way. Later I learned I didn't make it. The next time up, deep snow and failing daylight made me retreat at the same spot, this time knowing I was not at the top! Aaaarg! Finally, I got to the true summit last winter and it was a sweet feeling!

You know, I respect every person that has done the NH 48, but I have to say: I do appreciate a good liar. One would assume that to pull off a complete lie... trip reports, pictures, summit shots, trail descriptions and so on for the entire NH48 without ever having stepped a foot on any of the peaks is a admirable feat in itself! And besides, most of it's just entertainment anyway so I feel that instead of shunning we should embrace those who would 'make up' doing a peak or two or three or four. Perhaps even add a peak, "yeah, I did Mt. Fibracanocker -- it's a 4000 footer!" just to spice things up. How would anyone know? Hey, I just did the 48 -- wanna see my trip reports? I have pictures too! Maybe it's time for the 4000'er Committee to start being a little more inclusive and invite members from ALL walks of society into their ranks based solely on perceived accomplishments and not actual ones.

-Dr. Wu

 

[Jim lombard]

It is legal in the winter if you buy a trail pass. I have only been up once in the winter, and I bought a pass. In the summer I don't believe they require a pass, but if you hike the road keep your eyes open and stay to the side. Don't assume that the cars will stop for you or move out of the way. I have done many training runs in the spring on the road and have never been hasseled by employees of the auto road.

That's true, I've called them and we will have to buy passes. I agree also that weather plays a big factor. We had it planned last March but the weather was bad so we postponed it.

Oh, and I agree with Giggy

 

[McRat]

I got first dibs on the bumper stickers!

According to the AMC 4000 Footer Committee, this car hasn't climbed
Mt. Washington​

 

[MTNRUNR]

Roads are "harder" anyway...

As anyone can plainly see...

I find it interesting how so many very knowledgable and experienced "hikers" don't agree on this MINOR point

It really doesn't matter to me either way as I have done Equinox, Mansfield and Washington...by the rules

I don't do a lot of hiking and am working on the NEHH list in winter. Pretty much haven't done very many peaks more than once trying to attain that goal.

But, when considering which way to reach the summit on these 3 I never even considered hiking up the road as it was not the easiest/shortest/safest way

Never even got into "reading the fine print" in the rules as I though it was pretty simple...get to the summit and back from a trailhead. Anyone that would consider the parking lot NEAR the summit of Mt Washington as a trailhead would be...an idiot

For the people that wouldn't consider a peak "bagged" by someone hiking up one of these auto roads...from the bottom(not a pull off part way up?) I find it interesting that it has been stated that Gene Daniels would consider it "bagged"...if it's OK by Gene(almost God almighty )...who are "we" to argue

Let the Games begin

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Hey, now wait just a cotton-picking minute ... Are you saying these can only be climbed via a trail? What about a bushwack?

When I read the FAQ the very same thought occurred to me.

I did the Auto Road once. It was in June, and a friend was recovering from surgery and wanted to climb Washington. We thought it would be the least stressful route, but overall it was probably the toughest hike/walk we'd ever done. Mostly it was boring, and it seemed interminable. We descended via Lion's Head and decided that - short of an emergency - we'd probably never do the Auto Road again. This was in the mindset of a 3 season climb.

Maybe someone can stop by the Mountain Wanderer and ask Steve Smith what he's take on this issue is. He's on the committee, although I think Eric processes the apps.

It's all a game. Don't take it too seriously. The main thing is to stay safe when you're up there.

 

[DougPaul]

I did the Auto Road once. It was in June, and a friend was recovering from surgery and wanted to climb Washington. We thought it would be the least stressful route, but overall it was probably the toughest hike/walk we'd ever done. Mostly it was boring, and it seemed interminable. We descended via Lion's Head and decided that - short of an emergency - we'd probably never do the Auto Road again. This was in the mindset of a 3 season climb.

I've walked down it (in summer) because it was late and getting dark. The unrelenting pounding on the down-sloping pavement was rather painful. IMO, an escape route only.

It's all a game. Don't take it too seriously. The main thing is to stay safe when you're up there.

Not only is it just a game, it is just a game based upon a recreational activity. IMO, getting back down is far more important than getting up or ticking off some list.

Doug

 

[KayakDan]

Hey, now wait just a cotton-picking minute ...

Cotton Kills!! Cotton Kills!
That should be a Bergelene pickin' minute!

Sorry....let's go back to arguing over a crazy technicality.

 

[Snowflea]

I've done the auto road several times. Have run up to the summit and back under full moon 3 or 4 times in summer; hiked up Tucks, then sledded (wheeeeee!) down the road as far as OJT; and once in May I ran up the auto road, be-bopped across the Northern Presies to Madison and back, then ran back down the road. It was a perfect, windless day. There was a bunch of snow in the trees but very little above treeline, so I was able to wear shorts and running shoes.

I enjoyed each excursion on the auto road very much, never finding it tedious or boring. Key is picking the right time to do it.

It always "counted."