Musings on Head Injuries

[PA Ridgerunner]

... But I'd never question anyone's decision to wear one themselves, anymore than I'd give them a hard time about using poles, or gatorade vs water, or hiking with their dang cat.

Of course, that's just my opinion. I could be wrong.

What, are you also afraid to take a stand on leaving packs in the col?!?!

 

[WinterWarlock]

What, are you also afraid to take a stand on leaving packs in the col?!?!

Do your own thing - doesn't matter to me.

Nothing to do with fear, by the way.

 

[Rik]

I generally wear mine for the ride to the high peaks and then take it off when I leave the car. My helmet that is, not my cat.

 

[wardsgirl]

Just noticed this thread is still going. Since it now covers all our favorite VFTT topics from hiking cats and helmets to leaving packs in the col and preferred water filtration methods, I believe it is destined to become a classic... right alongside my Carrigain Well post of a couple years ago....

and now, to get this back on topic- have you seen this:

http://www.cnn.com/2009/HEALTH/03/26/head.injury.emergency/index.html

 

[JohnL]

There is no dark side of the moon really. As a matter of fact, it's all dark.

Don't crush that dwarf, hand me the pliers.

Now is the test of the boomerang
Tossed in the night of redeeming

And so were the fiery balls of this fish, one of which is the sun, and the other, they called the moon.

Put what you want between them, and your future begins.

Sometime I think of Tweeter, sometime I think of Jan

But, most of all she was thinkin' 'bout the Jack of Hearts.

I just read this thread end to end. I think I have a head injury.

JohnL

 

[TCD]

Thread drift...

 

[Stan]

Hiking cats? Of course!

We had a siamese cat that would hike with us, well, at least go on nice woods walks. Even after having to straighten out two dobermans, after which she promptly scurried up a tree, she never once brought up the idea of wearing a helmet.

 

[woodsxc]

^^^This is korrekt.

(There, happy now...? )

Yep. Much obliged.

 

[ROCKYSUMMIT]

My son had an accident October 3rd and suffered many skull and facial fractures and traumatic brain injury. We almost lost him, he is still rehabbing. Although he hit a pole on his motorcycle, we've seen so many of these injuries after the slightest falls. It wasn't a huge surprise to us that Natasha Richardson lost her life. So very sad. What is a surprise is that you don't see even more deaths from street fights, hockey fights, and what was once a favorite sport of mine, boxing. I don't wear a helmet while hiking and I do like to solo in winter. I am a lot more cautious since seeing all this though.

 

[Maddy]

Yikes ! Maybe we should do the same here !






This data seems pretty straight forward;

"Improving the Odds

Cyclists not wearing helmets are killed more frequently than cyclists who do wear helmets, according to data collected for 2007 in California, public safety officials say.

124 bicyclists killed

25 were wearing helmets
99 were not wearing helmets

10,590 bicyclists were injured

2,324 were reported as wearing helmets
8,266 were reported as not wearing helmets

Source: California Highway Patrol, Statewide Integrated Traffic Records System "

The very special study of VFTT members who posted on this recent thread is complete.
I thought the results were very impressive considering the small group who posted.
These results do not include those who personally experienced close encounters when they were not wearing their helmets, or who witnessed friends of family with serious head injuries and are now "believers" in the mighty powers of the HELMET!

1.Paradox-suffered multiple injuries but avoided serious head injury and/or death wearing his helmet. It was cracked in seven places and dented just off midline.
2.Petey Hickey- helmet cracked avoid
serious head injury and/or death.
3. Dax-severe concussion with bike helmet ON.
Avoids serious head injury and or/ death.
4. Hikes-Bikes-Fish- helmet cracked on
impact avoids serious head injury/death
5. Maddy-wearing helmet when thrown
off bike hitting concrete tunnel. Avoids serious head injury and/or death.

I apologize is I skipped anyone. Please feel free to add yourself to the study.

 

[TrishandAlex]

The very special study of VFTT members who posted on this recent thread is complete.
I thought the results were very impressive considering the small group who posted.
These results do not include those who personally experienced close encounters when they were not wearing their helmets, or who witnessed friends of family with serious head injuries and are now "believers" in the mighty powers of the HELMET!

1.Paradox-suffered multiple injuries but avoided serious head injury and/or death wearing his helmet. It was cracked in seven places and dented just off midline.
2.Petey Hickey- helmet cracked avoid
serious head injury and/or death.
3. Dax-severe concussion with bike helmet ON.
Avoids serious head injury and or/ death.
4. Hikes-Bikes-Fish- helmet cracked on
impact avoids serious head injury/death
5. Maddy-wearing helmet when thrown
off bike hitting concrete tunnel. Avoids serious head injury and/or death.

I apologize is I skipped anyone. Please feel free to add yourself to the study.

Again, I am not anti-helmet. BUT the scientist in me can't resist making a few comments.

The above in no way constitutes a study -- 5 is a tiny sample size, it's all based on self-report and memory, countless variables have been left out of the analysis -- and who knows the number of VFTT folks who have had years of bike experience who aren't posting, for whatever reasons?

Yes, for the above people in those circumstances, it was great they were wearing a helmet. Absolutely.

BUT the scientist I was (pre-kids) wants to make sure no one's confusing personal experience (the "n of 1" problem) with scientific research and statistical investigation.

 

[WinterWarlock]

Again, I am not anti-helmet. BUT the scientist in me can't resist making a few comments.

The above in no way constitutes a study -- 5 is a tiny sample size, it's all based on self-report and memory, countless variables have been left out of the analysis -- and who knows the number of VFTT folks who have had years of bike experience who aren't posting, for whatever reasons?

Yes, for the above people in those circumstances, it was great they were wearing a helmet. Absolutely.

BUT the scientist I was (pre-kids) wants to make sure no one's confusing personal experience (the "n of 1" problem) with scientific research and statistical investigation.

There are simply too many variables to do a comprehensive study - what is the experience level of the user, the physical/mental conditions, the weather, etc.

I, too, have a scientific background, and am generally a skeptic, but in this case I can see no good reason to simply accept the studies that show helmets don't help. I'm sure with enough digging one can find as many studies that support one's own supposition, no matter the view, so the skeptic in me says if the studies are contradictory, then I'm left to my own gut interpretation as to my own belief, and therefore actions.

 

[TrishandAlex]

I'm sure with enough digging one can find as many studies that support one's own supposition, no matter the view, so the skeptic in me says if the studies are contradictory, then I'm left to my own gut interpretation as to my own belief, and therefore actions.

Very good point, excellent statement.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I am a believer for myself, and my family. I'm not an evangelist though. I am now the 1 member w/o a ski helmet... have to find one before December, I guess.

Tim

 

[jniehof]

(normalized for miles or hours or traffic exposure, whatever correlates best for risk of accident)

Hours. Per mile is VERY strongly anti-correlated with speed, whereas per hour has a poor speed correlation.

Several issues may contribute to the poor performance of bike helmets at preventing death. One is that a lot of people wear them wrong--too high, or tilted too far back, or too loose. Another is that, in the high-energy collisions that are more likely to cause fatalities, they really can't absorb enough energy to make a difference, and there are usually severe non-head injuries. I wear a bike helmet as part of an overall strategy of risk mitigation and injury reduction--it'll probably help reduce the severity of head injuries in a low to moderate speed collision. But other steps are probably more effective. Dan Gutierrez refers to this as the "safety layers" theory...he explains it here. One of the reasons h*lmet wars get heated is claims that they're The One And Only Necessary And Sufficient Condition For Safety, or the perception that someone else is making that claim

BHSI is a pretty good source for those who really want to read more about bike helmets.

 

[Stash]

. One of the reasons h*lmet wars get heated is claims that they're The One And Only Necessary And Sufficient Condition For Safety, or the perception that someone else is making that claim

I'm thinking that IF there's only "One And Only" it's more likely what the helmet is meant to protect!

 

[Maddy]

My post was a little bit if a spoof on "studies" and I certainly followed none of the protocols to conduct a real study. I don't even pretend to be a great research guru.
That being said I think the results speak for themselves.
The five of us who could have all too easily cracked our skulls but for the fact that we wore helmets, might very well be learning the alphabet in some brain rehab unit,providing of course that we we survived the impact, rather that contributing and enjoying this great debate.
IMHO I think my VFTT numbers support the CA study which from what I read on the boards is useless as well.
How many times have we read in a study that some med or device is a real life saver and shortly thereafter the lawyers are chomping at the bit with the class actions lawsuits because x number of people are dead or permanently disabled?
I don't place too much faith in any study, even my own!

 

[Grumpy]

Just for the record, I understand the risk of head injury either from falling myself or from falling objects. But you definitely will not find me wearing a helmet for ordinary hiking, even on rough trails with iffy footing, and are unlikely to find me wearing a helmet even on scrambles or slide climbs.

Gotta draw the line somewhere on being safety conscious. And there it lies for me.

G.

 

[Little Rickie]

There are simply too many variables to do a comprehensive study - what is the experience level of the user, the physical/mental conditions, the weather, etc.

I, too, have a scientific background, and am generally a skeptic, but in this case I can see no good reason to simply accept the studies that show helmets don't help. I'm sure with enough digging one can find as many studies that support one's own supposition, no matter the view, so the skeptic in me says if the studies are contradictory, then I'm left to my own gut interpretation as to my own belief, and therefore actions.

I think I called science that doesn't make sence...poppycock!!!

Now lets talk about something important, like the weathrer this weekend.

Someone save this thread from the 100 post death.

 

[WinterWarlock]

I think I called science that doesn't make sence...poppycock!!!

Now lets talk about something important, like the weathrer this weekend.

Someone save this thread from the 100 post death.

Hmm - Little Rickie doesn't ever wear a helmet. Enough said.