My mountaineering sled!

[deadpoint]

i wouldn't be concerned about it not being waterproof, a little snow or even alot of snow should be an issue. i use a huge duffel and never had a problem. i would recommend that you add a bunch of eye holes so you can strap your bag down to the sled, i can't tell if the black straps are attached. this way when i flips over you don't loose the load.

 

[hikingfish]

i wouldn't be concerned about it not being waterproof, a little snow or even alot of snow should be an issue. i use a huge duffel and never had a problem. i would recommend that you add a bunch of eye holes so you can strap your bag down to the sled, i can't tell if the black straps are attached. this way when i flips over you don't loose the load.

Hi Deadpoint!
The black straps actually go over the cover. I modified it for that specific purpose too: Wouldn't want to be stuck re-loading all the sled in case it flips!

I still have to test it...I'll see if I have to create some breaking system or not!

Fish

 

[Ed B]

Brakes for Ski Pulks

First a thanks to all of you who spoke kindly of my web site (www.skipulk.com) PDF booklet and pulk systems. I love checking out VFTT because your discussions are quite informed.

Having been obsessed with pulks for years I agree that making your own can be more exciting than buying one. I dont like adding to posts unless I can ad something of value.

Earlier peopel werre talking about brakes. I consider brakes to be in three categories.
PASSIVE BRAKES are toothed pieces of plastic or aluminum hinged with a piano hinge behind your sled. They prevent back slide and are helpful on steep hills but a pain in the ass with heavy forest where an occaisional backup is in order.
SIMPLE ACTIVE BRAKES are a loops of rope or chain that you pull under your sled on a steep downhill. They are simple and effective but are either on or off.
VARIABLE BRAKES are spring loaded long pieces of pipe or pole that are mounted to the sled in the middle with a bolt so that the skier can pull a rope and leverage the pole to go vertical and engage the snow. When the pull rope is loosened the pole will be pulled back to the horizontal by the spring. Sorry I dont have any pictures as I have not built one in years. It is a lot of work and honestly I prefer the Simple Active Brake.

We got out first cold day today here in MN. So far it has been like September.. Ed B (Pulky ED)

 

[ChrisB]

Design Innovation I'd Suggest

Hi all,

Sleds are sure the way to go for winter hauling.

One thing I think lots of sled makers miss, however, is implementing adjustable-length harness poles.

I know that when on skis in open country or on a tote road, I need the sled several feet behind me so that the tails of my skis don't contact the front of the sled.

But, when you shift to walking narrow trails on snowshoes, it is really nice to be able to reel the sled in so that it trails you closely. This makes it much easier to navigate around tight corners, trail obstacles, etc.

I use rigid alum poles that engage with a snap-button-into-hole mechanism. I'd like to find a twist-friction system similar to a treking pole that would be robust enuff for a sled. So far, no luck!

cb

 

[SherpaKroto]

Hikingfish: I'd worry less about waterproof and more about drag. The cover that you have will likely catch on everything that you pass. The tried and true method of laying a blue/green tarp on the bottom of the sled and tightly wrapping your gear with straps is the way to go IMHO. Folks from this site that I know who have used their sleds successfully would include Spencer, Frodo, CB, GO, Arm, Shizzmac20, el-bagr, Sli74, Warren (pardon me if I missed anyone!). Might ask them directly if you have any specific questions. We've put our sleds through enough stress to basically kill them, and some of our sleds are on their 3rd or 4th incarnation.

One imposrtant thing to remember: make your sled field repairable. They can, and WILL fail. Mine failed twice on our BSP N>S traverse in 2005 (~50+ miles total), but was easily repaired. Made the trip a heck of a lot happier for me (and my partners!!!)

yardsale: I'd rethink the PVC. Everyone told me the same thing, but I was stubburn. It COMPLETELY failed 5 miles from the trailhead on my 4th trip. A real good lesson for me to listen to those who warned me. I now use aluminum conduit with very good success.

 

[John H Swanson]

I use 1/2" schedule 80 PVC with the pieces bolted together with 10x32 screws and nylon insert locking nuts and it has not failed in 6 trips. Even pulled the whole sled by the poles over many 12" to 16" high blowdowns with a 50lb load. They do flex a little on steep downhills. I would not recommend glue connection.

Also, I have a 5" string loop at the end of the polls that loops around my hipbelt. Having the string eliminated the pulsing force during nornal gate.
5-^" is the magic number. longer and you get poked in the butt by the pole ends.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

I'd also recommend metal poles over PVC, even Schedule 80. Electrical conduit pipe (EMT) is light, strong and readily available from Home Depot, Lowes, etc. As others have said, make sure the sled is field repairable and that you carry spare parts/tools. Pulling a heavy sled over hardpack can cause lots of vibration, and bolts vibrate loose. Use lock washers/nuts liberally, and consider using pins on major connections.

The attachment points of the poles to your sled look weak. I interlaced a nylon rope around the perimeter of my sled and thru the metal poles and attached to a wide web belt on my waist. The rope is what pulls the sled - the poles serve mostly to keep the sled a fixed distance to my body, and to some extent provide some stability.

 

[Kevin]

Has anyone been to Dick's Sporting Goods lately? The one here in Poughkeepsie has a great sled to convert into a mountaineering sled, I think.

66 inches long, blaze orange, heavy duty plastic; serious heavy duty-might even be too heavy, not a lot of rotational flex for it's length with surprised me, it costs a bit, $40. It has a flat front end, not a curved one, as well... I just looked at their website and do not see it there to attach a link, and I forgot to get the name on it.

Just curious if anyone else has seen these... Personally it is a little too big for my needs, rather get something in the 4-5 foot range.

Kevin

 

[hikingfish]

Where did your sled break?

One imposrtant thing to remember: make your sled field repairable. They can, and WILL fail. Mine failed twice on our BSP N>S traverse in 2005 (~50+ miles total), but was easily repaired. Made the trip a heck of a lot happier for me (and my partners!!!)

Hi Sherpa!
I've insured that I was using 1 kind of screw and 1 kind of nut throughout the sled and I carry spares to replace all of them. I've also made spart parts of almost all parts, EXCEPT: the actual poles (chimney sweeping poles), the rod-ends (ball-joint on a screw, as I call 'em!) and the safety pin that hold the rod-ends connected to the sled's U-shape pieces. In my opinion, these are not going to break...my only concern is with the poles themselves...should I carry a spare one? Has anyone had a break of their actual poles?

Fish

 

[DougPaul]

Has anyone been to Dick's Sporting Goods lately? The one here in Poughkeepsie has a great sled to convert into a mountaineering sled, I think.

66 inches long, blaze orange, heavy duty plastic; serious heavy duty-might even be too heavy, not a lot of rotational flex for it's length with surprised me, it costs a bit, $40. It has a flat front end, not a curved one, as well... I just looked at their website and do not see it there to attach a link, and I forgot to get the name on it.

REI carries the Paris Company Expedition Sled favored by many builders:
http://www.rei.com/online/store/Pro...29&parent_category_rn=4501542&vcat=REI_SEARCH

One set of instructions can be found in http://www.skipulk.com/images/pulkbook.pdf.

Doug

 

[John H Swanson]

Hi Sherpa!
In my opinion, these are not going to break...my only concern is with the poles themselves...should I carry a spare one? Has anyone had a break of their actual poles?

Fish

Poles fail all the time. Especially PVC, if they are thin wall. This is one of the most common failures I've seen.

I haven't seen anyone carry spares but I'm sure people do ....and I would if it was critical, but for my trips it's not. One could always pull a sled without poles or splint the broken pole

An extra screw and nut or 2 is a good idea as they do come undone which is why I'm a big fan of nylon insert locking nuts like those used on sherpa snowshoes. I have seen a 10x24 screw fail by shear force with EMT steel tubing but that was with a design that created a lever multiplier of the force on the screw.

I haven;t seen a u-bolt fail but thats because the little plate that comes with it helps to distribute the force and minimize the stress.

 

[hikingfish]

How to judge if sled is expedition ready?

This is making me nervous a bit...This Christmas break will be the first time I use my sled. I was planning on doing lots of testing with it once it's done. Is there one particular situation in which the poles would suffer the most stress? I would think that would happen when you go down a somewhat steep hill and the pulk is pushing on the poles, but seeing as they're stuck to your belt, they'd take all the force. In an angle (where the poles would twist a bit) would be even worst. Any other situation I'm not thinking of that could create lots of stress? I wasn't planning carrying extra poles, although I could always go grab some...they're only 6$ CDN each. It's more for the fact that I'll be pulling close to 2 pulks (because of all the spare parts!). I was thinking of simply carrying a rope that I could use to pull the pulk with should my poles fail.

Testing wise, what sort of testing did you do with your pulks before you judged them expedition worthy? Ideally, you'd have a pre-expedition expedition...but that's just not going to happen! Would a 2 hour long walk on an easy / moderate trail be a good test? Not that it would mimic perfectly the conditions one would encounter...but it'd be a good test!

There's a tiny little hill in the park in front of my appartment, I was planning on going up/down hill a couple of times, trying to traverse, etc to see how the sled would behave.

I'd love to know what kind of testing you put your sled through!

Fish

 

[John H Swanson]

you should carry several pieces of various length 4-5mm climbing cord. Say, 2@20ft, 3@10-12ft and 3@6ft. These are very light, rated to 100s of pounds and could help improvise any solution. Also some duct tape.

The point of high risk to failure is when you slide down a steep descent and suddenly stop. Then all the weight of your sled is stopped by your poles. If your decent is on skis and the stop is abrupt, then the force is very high. Less of an issue on snowshoes. Oh, when the pole breaks it does not mean the slead has stopped. Some times the sled with the broken pole continues....towards you Shishkabob.

I would not try to test for this, but I would do a short walk of 20-30 min especially to test the confort of the connection of the poles to you. Various conditions is best.

 

[John H Swanson]

Other Advice

Also note that the packing of the sled is important. During my first trips I was not too expereinced packing and it showed. Tracking and stability has alot to do with weight distribution. Of course you wamt the weight low.

And do not forget the security of the load. Load shifting is not good. You want to secure everything snugly to avoid this, but be surenot to deform the flat bottom of the sled by over tightening

Lastly, care should be given to ensure that gear does not fall off. Avoid tucking things under bungies or cords as they can work themselve loose and fall off without you knowing it. Tie things directly with knots.

 

[hikingfish]

Lastly, care should be given to ensure that gear does not fall off. Avoid tucking things under bungies or cords as they can work themselve loose and fall off without you knowing it. Tie things directly with knots.

This is the exact reason why I wanted a cover!

Thanks for all the advise all!

Fish

 

[SherpaKroto]

...my only concern is with the poles themselves...should I carry a spare one? Has anyone had a break of their actual poles?

Fish

My PVC poles shattered. Once one spot breaks, eventually the entire pole will break. Spencer had his pole break while crossing a footbridge in BSP. Pretty hairy, but he was able to repair it. If a spare pole is light, nothing really lost in carrying a spare in the sled if you have one.

 

[spencer]

Yup, but mine are metal! The key is having an able field repair kit including some pre-concocted schemes on how to fix failures.

Word to the wise - don't try to ski a sled across a one-log bridge. Stubborness is no substitute for patience.

spencer

 

[yardsale]

You can diminish the deformation of the sled bottom via over tightening by placing 1/4 plywood sheet trimmed to the shape of the bottom of the sled. This does a lot to improve stability. Anyone have experience with gray plastic hot/cold water piping vs the white pvc which is prone to shattering when cold?

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Anyone have experience with gray plastic hot/cold water piping vs the white pvc which is prone to shattering when cold?

Am not sure why anyone would consider PVC when a 10' length of 1/2" metal EMT is less than $2...? And I'd second JS's recommendation to use lock nuts with nylon inserts. I first saw these on an ice boat I bought about 25 years ago - the vibration of a steel boat on ice at 60 mph is substantial - and these nuts don't loosen easily. I've also seen them referred to as 'aircraft nuts'.

 

[John H Swanson]

You can diminish the deformation of the sled bottom via over tightening by placing 1/4 plywood sheet trimmed to the shape of the bottom of the sled. This does a lot to improve stability. Anyone have experience with gray plastic hot/cold water piping vs the white pvc which is prone to shattering when cold?

Mine has made 6 trips and is still okay. 1/2" schedule 80.

One reservation I have on EMT is connecting to my pack. I drill a hole in the pole and insert a small diameter cord through the hole to form a loop of cord. This I simply loop over my pack's hipbelt. It's very simple and works well for me. If I use EMT than the hole could abrade the cord...so I would have to look at a webbing/grommet attachment unless you have other ideas.