ah yes...The Appys vs. The Vulgariens relived! What would Fritz and Hans have to say about this? To quote Wikipedia: "Technical rock climbing has been going on in the Gunks since 1935, when the area was “discovered” by Fritz Wiessner. Hans Kraus, along with Wiessner, dominated the local climbing scene until the 1950s. There is a rich history of climbing in the Shawangunks, which includes the conservative Appalachian Mountain Club, the drug- and alcohol-fueled antics of the Vulgarians (a group that included guidebook author Richard Williams that opposed the licensing of climbers and engaged in provocative behavior, including climbing nude),[9] and many colorful personalities. The area has historically often been at the leading edge of elite rock climbing; today it is better known for its large number of high quality moderate climbing routes."One guy who was general foreman at a major defense contractor (the sort of job that only 1 in 1000 ever gets) was refused a signature by an engineer in his company as not being the sort of person who should belong. He eventually made it to the Trails Committee of the main club only to continue to be snubbed at leadership meetings by people who thought that any committee that involved physical work was inferior to long-range planning, fund-raising, etc.