NE Hundred Highest: What about Boundary Moument 443?

[Papa Bear]

I was studying the maps on Topozone and looking at Mount Gosford (in Canada near NEHH Boundary Peak) and the ridge that extends from Gosford to the US border. The ridge hits the border at moument 443. Although not the high point on the ridge, this point on the border is clearly shown to be above the 3800' contour.

Monument 443 map

By the AMC rules for interpolation that would make the elevation 3810' and would put is as #89, just lower than PAN and just higher than Bigelow South Horn.

In this instance we would call the peak a "liner" meaning it has little prominence and a higher point with prominence lies on the other side of the line (i.e. the higher point is in Canada). I'm not sure if the AMC rules were made to cope with this case. Considering the US side only (i.e. pretending the boundary is the end of the world) it has well over 200' of prominence (I know prominence folks would never take that approach), but considering the larger picture (i.e. putting Canadian terrain into the equation) is has little or no prominence.

Common sense would say: "stuff in Canada doesn't count", but eliminating Mon 443 implies a more complicated statement: "stuff in Canada doesn't count for peaks but it does count when we apply the 200' rule". High pointers would count it as the 89th highest point in New England (they count liners) but I guess the AMC would not.

Any experts out there care to comment? Do the guys chasing 3ks count this one? (Dennis? John?) Are there any other "liners" that might qualify for some list based on elevation?

Pb

 

[ken]

>>Common sense would say: "stuff in Canada doesn't count", but eliminating Mon 443 implies a more complicated statement: "stuff in Canada doesn't count for peaks but it does count when we apply the 200' rule". High pointers would count it as the 89th highest point in New England (they count liners) but I guess the AMC would not. <<

you are not "highpointing"... you are hiking the 100 highest peaks in new england - a "liner" is a highpoint (as in frissell, connectcuit - state's highpoint with summit in massachussetts), not a "peak" (as bear mt. connectcuit's highest peak).

if you counted the highpoint in canada as 89 according to the "200 rule" you would no longer be climbing the new england hundred highest.

 

[spencer]

I'm not the expert you are looking for, but I can tell you Monument 443 is not on the 3k list and monuments 437 and 439 are on the list. they are just up the road a bit from 443.

Perhaps the rationale is that they are actual peaks on the line whereas 443 is just a highpoint on something much different???

I believe the circle in this picture points to the 443 bump you are talking about. Note the swath itself goes around the northeast side, so we can't see where it crests.

spencer

 

[arghman]

I believe the circle in this picture points to the 443 bump you are talking about. Note the swath itself goes around the northeast side, so we can't see where it crests. spencer

spencer, that is a really cool photo. (this topic is wayyyyyyy out of my league)
unrelated tangent: what's the deal with boundary swaths? I remember reading an article a while ago that mentioned some small US government agency (international boundary commission?) which is in charge of cutting back vegetation, they didn't have enough manpower or something (and I remember thinking at the time that it might be cool to volunteer to maintain a few hundred yards... something less remote than these ones in Maine though. )

 

[spencer]

Everything you ever wanted to know...

I have dreams of spending a winter skiing the 611 miles in Maine.

spencer

 

[Papa Bear]

This is directed to Spencer and Roy or to anyone else who may have hiked to Monument 443.

I have the map published by Les Sentiers Frontaliers which maintains hiking trails in the area. The map shows a trail from Monument 443 to Mont Gosford which appears to go over or near the high point which is a few tenths of a mile from the border. It also shows a view point there. Do you know is this the actual high point or just a view point nearby? i.e. does the trail go over the peak or just close?

I'm hoping to go up to that area before real winter sets in. One idea I'm entertaining is to start by hiking to the NEHH Boundary peak (which is between Monument 446 and 445), then hike along the swath to 443 (the map indicates this is just over 3 km), then take the trail over the aforementioned peak and onward to Gosford, and then down to the road on the regular Gosford Trail. Anyone done this? Any caveats, pittfalls or suggestions? It looks like easy going the whole way, is it?

Thanks
Pb

 

[John H Swanson]

Fall means hunting season
There's lot of Canadians that moose hunt along the boundry.
They draw in the ME moose with salt licks. ... and they won't be too happy if you're walking through their area scaring the moose away from their stands / blinds.

 

[bobandgeri]

Does anyone know what the hunting seasons are in that section? I found this on the web:

Quebec Hunting Regulations
Moose
Season:Aug 31 to Oct 27 (varies by zone)

 

[Meo]

2 years ago I climbed Gosford, then took the official trail leading to the boundary swath near monument 443 (trail #1 on the map). The trail doesn't pass on the summit itself, but if my memory is good, you'll find a herdpath on your right on trail #1 a few minutes before reaching the swath. I don't remember if I actually went up to the summit via this herdpath or if I stopped somewhere along the climb. I'm not even sure if this path goes all the way to the summit or if you have to bushwack the last part (I wasn't peakbagging that day, I only wanted to hike the whole loop including trail #7, Gosford itself being too short and easy).

Call ahead if you go there soon, the area is heavily used for hunting (it's closed to hikers at this time of the year). And keep in touch with me, perhaps I'll join you for this hike.

Meo

 

[bobandgeri]

Meo - When you say call ahead - who should one call ? Who closes the trails to hikers and how would one know that? The potential trip is the weekend of Nov 13.

 

[Papa Bear]

Oops, looks like I have the information:

The group is Les Sentiers Frontaliers. On the map I got it gives:

Sentiers frontaliers Inc.
Club de randonnee
Case postale 23, Lac-Megantic
(Quebec) G6B 2S5

[email protected]

Pour plus d'information: 819-544-4211 poste 223


Meo: if we go, you surely would be a welcome partner. You must know Gosford (or maybe that bump near 443, depending on which map you believe) is one of Quebec's Fifty Finest! (It's #9.) Bring your GPS and turn WAAS on, and we'll see if we can figure if Gosford or the 443 bump is higher.

You mean you're not working on the QFF list?
Pb

 

[Meo]

OK, I found the infos. They're on this page:

http://zeclouisegosford.zecquebec.com/fqgz/zeclouisegosford

The phone number for the ZEC (or the park, if you prefer) is (819) 544-9004

Email:[email protected]

On the page above (in french), it's written "hiking forbidden between september 25 and october 3, and also between october 16 and october 24".

So you should be ok in november.

I'll let you know if I can, I must discuss about it with Julie.

BTW, PB, do you have Quebec's 50FF list? Some of them are in the Torngats, so I don't think it's easily doable, but yes it could give me some ideas

Also, PB, I went to a very interesting conference from a guy (Frederic Dion) who went 2 times on Caubvick in the last few years, including one kayak trip from Quebec city to Caubvick (wow!). You could contact him for firsthand infos for your own trip.

 

[bobandgeri]

The English version of the eb page is at:

http://gestion.zecquebec.com/fqgz/zeclouisegosford/activeservice?value=home1&stl=en

 

[Papa Bear]

Meo

I just knew that would get your attention!

I actually put the link in my message to you above (click on "QFF list"). It's not exactly a FF list, but it lists all major Quebec peaks above 1000m (3280') with their prominences. It just has about 20 with prominence but the first 10 or so should be pretty accurate. As you get down in the list I'm sure there are missing peaks. And I'm sure some of the peaks less than 1000m would make the FF list. But this list is a good start.

Here's the link

The list is from the excellent site built by Greg Sleyden which lists thousands of peaks world wide. Here's the top level link

Hope to see you on the boundary swath in November with Bob and Geri.


Kevin: Yeah, I've been there and I've seen the "corridor of death". We are in fact planning a route via Canada.

I would guess 443 is not on the bushwhack from White Cap since 443 is about 2 or 3 miles north of Boundary Peak and White Cap is something like 2 or 3 miles SSE (as the crow flies). Here's a big map. Boundary is where the red marker is, 443 is that sharp indentation towards the west a couple of miles north up the swath.

Pb

 

[Jean]

You mean you're not working on the QFF list?
Pb

Nooooo! Not another list.... all my weekends are already booked 'til 2012... why did you have to post that link? why?

 

[spencer]

Deer season is over on Saturday. I'm not sure about the Quebec seasons.

I have not been to Gosford and I don't think I've been on 443, although I'm pretty sure the picture I posted is of the shoulder of it.


spencer