Need overnight advice

[DackerDan]

Relatively new here and was looking for some information. I am planning several trips to cover the presi range with my 14YO daughter. We have hiked the ADK 46 and want to tackle the presis. In the Dacks we would sometimes pull into the trail head parking lot the night before a hike and sleep in the car, something quite often done in the Dacks. This option would be very important to us for this journey because we have a 4.5 hour drive. Is this done in the usual trail head parking lots or will the rangers or other folks chase you out? What about at the Highland center?

It appears campsites on the trails are limited and not in convenient spots and the Huts are just too expensive, we will probably do this in two or three trips depending on how difficult we find the climbing and hiking.

Plan so far:
Trip 1- We are looking at a loop of Monroe-Eisenhower-Pierce first and park/sleep at the Highland center. For this we were planning to bike to the parking lot below the cog and then hike up Ammo and return on the Crawford, fetch the car and return to the bikes. Is this a viable plan? Is there a place to lock up bikes safely?

Trip 2 - Washington and Jeff, parking/sleep at the lot below the cog, take the Jewell trail up to the Gulfside trail and take the Caps Ridge trail down to the road and walk out.

Trip 3- Adams and Monroe as an overnight stay at the Osgood camp site but sleep in car on arrival somewhere near the Great Gulf trail head on 16. Up the Great Gulf trail dropping packs at the campsite, up to the Madison Gulf trail to the Madison hut and then up to Mt Adams, swing around to the Gulfside trail and over to Madison then return on the Osgood trail to the campsite.

All this would be done between July 1 and the weekend after Labor day if weather and schedules align.

My Daughters Blog about the 46: http://46-high-peaks.blogspot.com/

 

[Rainman]

Sleeping in the car is considered camping by the WMNF, and is prohibited in their lots. This includes the lot below the Cog, and the Great Gulf trail head. I believe the Highland center also prohibits sleeping in their lot. There are roadside campsites available in the WMNF, but I have not made use of these. I'm sure someone else can chime in on this.

 

[Chachie]

The Dry River Campground is a great place to "basecamp" on 302 in Crawford Notch State Park. It's not too far from the Highland Center. They have a newer building with laundry and showers, which is nice if you are traveling from out of state (like me).

This is how I did (some of) the Presis:

1. Pierce and Eisenhower (up Crawford path, down Edmands path, walked Mt. Clinton Rd)

2. Monroe, Washington, and Jefferson (up Ammo, down Caps Ridge) This was a tough day. It might be better to backtrack to the Jewel Trail. Caps Ridge was knee busting after a long day. I was glad to hitch a ride back to the Cog.

3. I've yet to do Adams and Madison... You might consider starting at Appalachia and staying overnight @ one of the RMC shelters on the Northern slopes.

4. Don't forget Jackson (easily done from Webster-Jackson Trail @ Highland Center)

Happy Hiking!

 

[Raymond]

Moose Brook State Park isn’t far from Appalachia, if you have to camp.

There are campgrounds along the Kancamagus, too, Jigger Johnson and Big Rock.

Lafayette Place in Franconia Notch.

Tons of motels, of course.

 

[DayTrip]

Couple of quick items on your post:

1) The Caps Ridge trail has a very rugged and steep section that is a bit strenuous to descend, with numerous ledges and rough areas that can be tricky when wet. After a loop like you are describing this might be a real grind to end your day. I would second previous comments about this being a rough way to end the day.

2) There is a small campground right on Rte 302 just East of Rte 3/Rte 302 heading toward (and very close to) the Cog Railroad - Zealand Campground. There are also two more areas - Sugarloaf I and II a short distance up that road. They can get busy but you can reserve sites online and they also have a fair amount of "first come, first serve" sites. They're no frills camping areas but have outhouses and water pumps and are pretty cheap. Sugarloaf I may even have electrical hook ups and showers but don't quote me on that. I always stay at Sugarloaf II. One of my favorite campgrounds. I don't think you'd have any problems midweek. If you are driving over from VT (??) you will likely be approaching this way and won't have to drive past your trail head to find a campsite.

3) For Trip #3 I assume you mean Adams and Madison, not Monroe?? If you're planning to stay at Osgood tent site an interesting way to get both summits is to go up Osgood Ridge. You can do Madison first, go to Adams and come off Adams on the Star Lake Trail back toward Madison and skip summit of Madison along Parapet Trail to reconnect with Osgood Trail. The views on Osgood Ridge and coming down Star Lake Trail back toward hut are absolutely sensational, some of the best in the Whites IMO.

Madison Gulf Trail has some very difficult sections with steep, wet and mossy ledges and numerous river crossings, many of which can be tricky when it is wet. Is your 14 yr old OK with that? And it has very limited views until the end. To me, you hike this trail to say you hiked this trail. I found it very disappointing.

For camping the night before there is Dolly Copp on Rte 16, which is an enormous campground with a 1 mile link path to Great Gulf Trail so you wouldn't even have to give up your site and drive to do hike if you didn't want to. I've never stayed there and have no idea what it is like other than it is big so hopefully would have open sites.

4) Not a big fan of "dropping the packs" in these areas, especially above treeline. Weather in this area is notoriously severe and unpredictable, even in the summer. With the routes and trails you are contemplating I'd strongly advise at least carrying a well provisioned day pack to deal with changing conditions. There are long sections above treeline on ridges fully exposed to the full fury of the wind and rain. Take some time to research alternate routes other than what you have planned so you know how to escape if necessary. Many of the trails in this area are very challenging on dry and sunny days. They can be deadly in poor conditions.

OK, enough lecturing. These are some tremendous hikes you have planned. Some of my favorite areas of all for the Whites. Hopefully you get the weather to maximize the views. You will not be disappointed with the experience.

 

[IQuest]

I'll add a couple quick comments as well. I would rather go Pierce-> Eisenhower-> Monroe then ride back to the Highland Ctr as it will be mostly down hill. Monroe is more commonly done with Washington but your plans are still very viable.

I would also suggest climbing Washington via Jewell and Gulfside, then head north over Mt Clay to Jefferson and then return to the Jewel Tr for descent. Although Caps Ridge Tr can be a bear at the end of the day, it's not always as bad as it is made out to be. However, walking Jefferson Notch Rd & Boundary Line Tr back to Jewel can be rather boring. Riding a bike down Jefferson Notch Rd would be more fun.

Madison Gulf Tr, as stated above is ho hum and I was a little disappointed when I did it. The middle section near all of the water crossings can be hard to follow. If staying at Dolly Copp, the Osgood & Daniel Webster Scout Tr make a good loop. Star Lake & especially Parapet Tr are very rough. I prefer to ascend Adams & Madison from the north. Perhaps Lowes Path & Airline. Good views into King Ravine.

I don't camp much so I'm not much help there. Enjoy your hikes, whichever you decide will give you and your daughter lasting memories.

 

[RoySwkr]

As mentioned, sleeping in car is considered camping by the WMNF and since you may not camp within 1/4 mi of a trailhead you may not camp in the lot. There are several places where you may sleep for free in your car, get the so-called Backcountry Camping Regulations and look for roads that don't have camping restrictions, IIRC the N part of Jefferson Notch Road is one

 

[blacknblue]

I'll second the notion of always bike downhill if you can help it. It's a lot more fun that way! I usually try to do the biking portion first, just in case I get to the end of a hike only to find a flat tire. As for locking them up safely, I've always just ditched them a little ways into the woods where they won't be seen.

I've done Adams/Madison with GG to Madison Gulf to Star Lake to Airline to Gulfside, and it makes for an exceptional hike -- one of my favorites, although also very strenuous, too. I wouldn't want to do that loop with a heavy pack, and I also wouldn't want to drop the pack at the campsite and go too light, either. You could do it in a (very) long day, especially at the end of the summer when your fitness is higher.

 

[DackerDan]

Yes - my trip 3 was Adams & Madison, not Monroe.
Thanks for the great advice - this is what I was looking for.

With regards to Trip #3 and dropping packs at the Osgood site, what we have done in the Adirondacks is carry a small pack with the what we need for the day including some survival gear and extra layer. This goes in with our larger packs. We have learned to pack light but effective, my overnight pack is usually less than 35 lbs and my daughters is around 25 lbs including food and water. Even as light as these are we would not lug all our gear to the peaks.

We will consider taking the Jewell trail up and back. As ADK 46ers we are experienced hikers and understand fickle mountain weather - although except for a few thunderstorms, our luck has been pretty good. I like the many options laid out here and will consider them as the day draws closer.

We will be regaining our hiking stamina in the Dacks once the shoulder season subsides, we have several backpacking trips planned. We are used to long days. As far as water crossings, very common in the Dacks. We did Allan after Irene when all the bridges were out, we had to cross through the Hudson, Opalescent and Lake Jimmy both too and from, not to mention it is an 18 mile day. We are use to 2000' climbs and multiple peaks in a day, the 3700' climb up Mt Washington will be a long day but my 12YO is a tough hiker. I am more worried about my ability rather than hers.

Now that this is beginning to take shape, another question arises. For trip 1, it appears they may be a water source at about 3900' from Mt Pleasant Brook on the Edmonds trail, can one fill & treat water there? Likewise it appears one can refill again from Gibbs brook on the Crawford path, is this correct? For trip 2 there is a spot on the map marked Greenough Spring, I assume this is a good watering hole. For trip 3 there is Star lake, although I don't usually refill in a lake, is this a good spot for water?

 

[KauaiGuy]

For the northern Presidentials, explore the Randolph Mountain Club's website, Grey Knob would be a good o/n choice. Also there are Hostels that are clean, comfortable, and inexpensive. The AMC also offers
an excellent shuttle between traiiheads . Have fun!

 

[KRobi]

For Trip #1, I would second the motion to hike up to Pierce-Ike-Monroe. While you are gaining elevation it allows for an all downhill bike ride back to Highland Center. Water up at HC in the AM and carry a normal amount (what you need is a personal choice) and then refill at LOC Hut before descending via Ammo Trail.
Trip #2, Caps ridge is not that bad down (in good weather it is an awesome trail). Would leave bikes at lot and again a great downhill back to the Cog (will have to do a bit of climbing at end).
Trip #3 Don't have enough info to offer any advice. Did this as a day hike so camping was not an option. Madison hut is always available for water so you don't need to treat water from Star Lake

 

[bobandgeri]

Your trips sound fine and very doable. Haystack Road and Gale River Loop road both have free first come first served rustic campsites.

An other option for camping - full service campground with hot showers, wifi, etc... for $27 for a family up to 4 right in Twin Mountain - http://ammonoosuccampground.com/

You might consider posting here or on one of the Facebook hiking pages your plans a few days before the hike to see if you can get a ride to the start of your hike and then hike back to your car. Lots of friendly hikers that might be able to help you out.

 

[Raymond]

Regarding the Crawford Path, Gibbs Brook is hardly any distance at all from the road. If you begin with full bottles, you probably wouldn’t even have taken a single sip by the time you reached the waterfall.

But if you bag Pierce, Eisenhower, and Monroe, then Lakes of the Clouds Hut is just on the other side of Monroe and you can refill there. That’s what my ladyfriend and I did when we climbed those three back in 1998; ascended via Crawford Path and the two summit loops, down to the hut, then Crawford Path back to Edmands Path, and the long walk down Mount Clinton Road to 302.

By the way, we left the car at the Elephant Head parking pullout. Later, when I climbed Pierce and Eisenhower by myself on Veterans Day 2010, I parked at the Crawford Path parking lot and my car was broken into.

 

[DayTrip]

Now that this is beginning to take shape, another question arises. For trip 1, it appears they may be a water source at about 3900' from Mt Pleasant Brook on the Edmonds trail, can one fill & treat water there? Likewise it appears one can refill again from Gibbs brook on the Crawford path, is this correct? For trip 2 there is a spot on the map marked Greenough Spring, I assume this is a good watering hole. For trip 3 there is Star lake, although I don't usually refill in a lake, is this a good spot for water?

The crossing of Mt Pleasant Brook on Edmands Trail usually has enough water flowing to fill bottles (and treat of course).

As was previously mentioned, Gibbs brook is only about 0.4 miles in so you're unlikely to stop there.

Star Lake can get pretty low and while usually clear can have a reddish tint to it. Not sure if the water is drinkable, even after treating, in the many small lakes in this area. The Madison Hut is only 0.2 miles or so from Star Lake so I'd imagine they might have a water source (I generally day hike and carry all the water I need so don't quote me on that. Not sure what the program is getting water at huts, i.e. guests only or open to all).

Is Greenough Spring the one on Gulfside Trail heading toward/coming back from Sphinx Col and Jefferson? If so, I've seen people fill bottles there even late in summer and although I've never personally used I believe that spring is considered reliable.

 

[IQuest]

The Madison Hut is only 0.2 miles or so from Star Lake so I'd imagine they might have a water source (I generally day hike and carry all the water I need so don't quote me on that. Not sure what the program is getting water at huts, i.e. guests only or open to all).

The water at AMC Huts if free and available to all. It is also potable, so no treatment is required. just walk in and head towards the kitchen area. There is a seperate sink for people to fill their water.

 

[DackerDan]

Thanks all - lots of great information!
I totally forgot about the Huts as a water source. That problem is solved. When I mentioned Gibbs brook I was thinking of it at the 3900' elevation line where it appears the trail passes by it at about 2.7 miles into the trail. At least that is what my map seems to indicate. Greenough spring is between sphinx col and the Jewell trail.

I am really looking forward to this, will cycle this back when the time is closer looking for conditions information.

 

[Mike P.]

You have Motel options in the Twin Mountain area and the Shapleigh Bunkhouse at Crawford Notch, next to the Highland Center are cheaper options. There are campgrounds and Hostel options also.

I've done the bike option a couple of times and riding up Base Road from the Mt. Clinton Road to the lot is a bit of a pain. (The Mt. Clinton Ride is nice)
Monroe can be done with Pierce & Eisenhower or with Washington & Jefferson, I've done both options a couple of times. (Can actually do Monroe, Washington & Jefferson with without spotting a car or a bike using the Ammo & Jewell Trail with a couple of extra miles to do Cap's Ridge. Cap's Ridge is a doable descent but then you have the road walk vs. the extra ridge walk.

For Adams and Madison, Moose Brook State park is convenient and getting a later stop & staying at one of the RMC cabins would work also. (RMC Shelters are on a 1st come 1st served basis - No reservations per their website.)

Water available at all the huts so if go up Ammo, you can get water at Lake of the Clouds hut & at the top of Washington.

 

[The Sikes]

I don't know how strong a hiker your daughter is but when I did this with my kids with did Jefferson, Adams and Monroe one day. (You have to spot a car...we found someone else who needed these peaks and did it that way) and then we did Washington all the way over to Jackson a different day. It was a long day but ...We stayed at the hotel near there for a treat. It wasn't too bad price wise.

 

[JCarter]

Most of these have been mentioned: Cheap camping: year-round at Lafayette Place and Hancock Campground (neither particularly convenient to the Presis), Fourth Iron at the south end of Crawford Notch. Zealand/Sugarloaf I&II, Dry River Campground 'in season' in Crawford Notch.

Free Camping: Gale River Rd, Haystack Rd, Old Cherry Mtn Rd: first-come/first served, NO facilities, only when the roads are open (May to November-ish). Most places a 1/4 mile from a trailhead and 75 or 200 ft from the trail (much harder than it sounds, given the topography and vegetation). But some trails have 1/4 mile exclusion zones (like the Ammo trail), so check the rulebook.

 

[DayTrip]

The water at AMC Huts if free and available to all. It is also potable, so no treatment is required. just walk in and head towards the kitchen area. There is a seperate sink for people to fill their water.

Good to know. Thanks for that. Never set foot in a hut to date.