Negligent hikers - charge them or not

[Tom]

(I took this off the lost hiker thread because it didn't relate to the Coxes at all)

In talking about compasses, I had made reference to hikers who needed rescuing from Skookumchuck ravine a couple years ago as "boneheads" and Fitz objected to the term:

I know one of the folks in that group. Definitely not a "bonehead".

Crap happens even to the best of us. Hopefully, we won't be writing about you some day.

Crap does indeed happen to the best of us, but those boneheads aren't among the best of us. They should have been charged with the cost of the "rescue" IMO.

The key words in this article are:

"The hikers, who went out unprepared... "


National Guard finds stranded hikers in N.H.
March 12, 2001


FRANCONIA, New Hampshire (CNN) -- Five hikers stranded in deep snow in the New Hampshire mountains were found Monday by National Guardsmen called into action because of poor weather conditions, the New Hampshire National Guard said.

The hikers, who went out unprepared for the extreme cold and wind, took refuge in a ravine on the side of mile-high Mount Lafayette, said Guard spokesman Lt. Ron Alie. A helicopter flew over the area several times before seeing one of the hikers waving a red coat Monday morning, he said.

A New Hampshire Fish and Game ranger with first-aid supplies and extra snow shoes was lowered to the hikers' location. He determined they were in good condition and began leading them out on foot. They are expected to reach Cannon Mountain Ski Resort sometime Monday afternoon if all goes well, Alie said.

Rescuers are concerned about the threat of an avalanche. "Any time you go into the mountains given the extreme weather conditions we have now you risk a potential avalanche," Alie said. "Doing that without snow shoes is incomprehensible."

The Guard is standing by in case a helicopter is still needed to bring the hikers out.

Fish and Game officials said they are considering whether to charge the hikers the estimated $3,000 the rescue effort cost.

 

[Jaytrek57]

With all due respect. I for one think it is relevant and the timing although unfortunate…is appropriate.
To be clear…IMHO…if SAR is called in… for any reason…my personal opinion is…the party (person) should be held liable….no matter what. Again this is a personal opinion. “Didn’t want a SAR”….well leave that in an itinerary, close friend /relative or glove box..

“Broke a leg in a fall climbing?”…Hey man (woman) you knew the risks or SHOULD have…you need to pay….if SAR comes (see itinerary point above).

The cost for a SAR for an “inexperienced” hiker is the same for the “experienced”. This includes the potential cost to SAR personnel (lives). In other words, if SAR team members risk their lives for the inexperience they do the same EXACT things for “experienced” people.

Do "experience" people cut down the odds for SARs? I honestly don’t know anymore….I actually think they increase them…just my opinion.

This again is just MHO. I have some SAR experience in the Army and other places…the timing is never comfortable to “discuss” these matters especially in close proximity to an event…….however…they are the best times.

Peace and prayers.

 

[spider solo]

I tend agree with with Kevin Rooney.......
plus we already have a law here in the Whites, though I don't think not having a GPS would qualify.

 

[brianW]

When the subject of billing (or fining) a lost hiker for SAR services I always wonder why the boaters don't get the same treatment when the Coast Guard is called in to assist or rescue them.

I don't have any facts or figures but I have to believe it costs a lot more (all tax payers $) for a ocean search and rescue then a mountain rescue.

 

[dug]

Would you have charged the family of the young boy who was lost in the Lincoln area? SAR was involved. He was in the woods.

If the answer is no, then take the exact scenario (two boys playing in a river, and both running back to "home"), but move it 10 miles northeast. Two boys are playing in Franconia Brook, and they take off to get back to the tent platforms. One gets lost. Is that chargeable?

Last, same scenario, but it happens on my land in Southern New Hampshire. Is that chargeable?

Be careful when making blanket statements. Just a thought.

 

[RoySwkr]

FRANCONIA, New Hampshire (CNN) -- Five hikers stranded in deep snow in the New Hampshire mountains were found Monday by National Guardsmen called into action because of poor weather conditions, the New Hampshire National Guard said.

I believe that these people did receive a bill. Gene was livid because they were less experienced hikers who turned back when the better hikers looped around on Falling Waters, and the better hikers (who didn't get lost) didn't receive a bill for abandonment.

Some people feel that you should receive a bill for S&R just like you receive a bill for the emergency room, whether it is your fault or not. I can't argue with that approach. In NH at present they only send bills for truly reckless conduct, and I'm not sure they ever sent one in the case of a fatality maybe as that is punishment enough.

Note that boaters, hunters, etc. pay license fees which can be used toward S&R. Some people support requiring hikers licenses too.

 

[Fitz]

I'll state what I know.

My friend is a very, very capable outdoors person. Not a bonehead.

Their trip did not go as planned.

They are one of the few people ever to receive and pay a bill.

 

[Jack Waldron]

There was a summary of the Reckless Hiking fines/bills in the UL about 18-24 months ago. At that time about 6-8 groups/individuals had been billed for the cost of their rescue. That included the group described above. A number of folks avoided being billed by making a donation to the NHODC to cover their rescue costs.

 

[WildPeaks]

Just some food for thought.
I am a boater out on the ocean as well as someone out on the trails year round. Both can have serious consequences to anyone who treats either lightly or is just a fool. We all are capable of making a bad judgement call. One thing is for sure, anything can happen to anyone in either place and it's good to know there are people standing by to come to your aid.
I would bet that one bad experience at either place would change most for life. But there are professional fools that never learn. Thankfully not a lot of them. Maybe fines on second offences and beyond would be more appropriate.
And by the way, the Coast Guard usually responds to life threatening calls only. No more towing the vessel that runs out of gas, breaks down, etc. There are tow services that monitor the calls & love to help you out ($400.00 a tow avg.). The Coast Guard calls them also for these situations that are non life threatening.
Also want to say I am deeply saddened by the loss the Cox family is going through. My prayers go out that God would comfort them at this time of loss.

 

[rox]

I can understand why Fitz said his friend's trip "did not go as planned", as I was on the summit of Lafayette with his group and descended just before them. I came (solo) from Lincoln and got to Lafayette about 10-15 minutes before his group of 12-13 arrived (I had seen then ascending). In the 20 minutes I spent tucked behind rocks putting on my crampons and eating lunch, visibility plumetted and it turned into a howling whiteout. His group arrived just ahead of the whiteout and started talking about going over to Lincoln, then down FW. Some had full gear, but many had light shells and no packs or gear. I thought they were overly optimistic, but hey, I've been there/done that myself, so I kept my mouth shut. Anyway, as I descended, I couldn't see from one cairn to the next, and the snow cover made things very uniform. It was only after going for what seemed too long (just a hunch from experience with prior Lafayette hikes), that I stopped and went back UP to find the last cairn. Found it, and then went down on a more WSW (instead of WNW) bearing, and I shortly found the next cairn. Very soon thereafter, I was below the whiteout and made it to the hut. In the 10+ minutes I spent changing to my snowshoes, some hikers started to appear, so I figured they had changed their minds. Turns out that 5 of them missed that same turn I missed, but kept on going until they were too far down into Skookumchuck Ravine to turn back (just my guess, based on what happened to me).

I can sympathize with what happened to them, but sometimes you have to be willing to backtrack to your last "known" trail marker. True, experience with the particular trail helps. What if that was my first time on that trail? I can't honestly say what I would have done.

To their credit, they did abort their plans to go over to Lincoln, and instead opted for the quicker descent to get out of the bad conditions as quickly as possible.

To their misfortune, they did not stay together (lightweight rope works great when you can't hear or see), did not have snowshoes, and missed one turn (experience; "to backtrack, or get down ASAP?").

They made it out alive; hopefully, "lesson learned".