New Eastern High Peaks Bear Canister Rule

[erd]

Received this AM indirectly:


> The NYS Department of Environmental Conservation
> (DEC) has released its
> final bear canister regulation for overnight campers
> in the Eastern High
> Peaks. The regulation will be effective
> immediately.
>
> The regulation amends Title 6 NYCRR Section 190.13.
> According to the regulation, a bear resistant
> canister is defined as:
> "a commercially made container constructed of solid,
> non-pliable
> material manufactured for the specific purpose of
> resisting entry by bears."
>
> The regulation states that "during the period April
> 1 through November
> 30, no overnight camper in the Eastern High Peaks
> Zone shall fail to use
> bear-resistant canisters for the storage of all
> food, food containers,
> garbage, and toiletries."
>

 

[erd]

So, a query. Does anyone know of anything smaller and lighter than the Bearikade? The Ursack doesn't comply with the reg in form (and is, in any case, useless against bears, from direct experience).

Does anyone know of a source for carbon fiber tubing or drums of, say, 4" diameter? I have one or two ideas for bear-safe closures.

Ted.

 

[lumberzac]

A 4" dia container wouldn't work, because a bear would be able to get its mouth around the canister.

 

[DougPaul]

Does anyone know of anything smaller and lighter than the Bearikade?

Does anyone know of a source for carbon fiber tubing or drums of, say, 4" diameter? I have one or two ideas for bear-safe closures.

Bearikade is the lightest "full size" cannister that I know of. 1lb-15oz, 650 cu in. Lots of $$.

There is a BearVault BV250: 1lb-14 oz, 433 cu in. http://www.bearvault.com/ (The full size model is 2lb-6oz, 693 cu in.)

Some of the orignal cannisters were made from large diameter PVC pipe. There is a minimum diameter--it has to be too big for a bear to get it in its mouth. I don't know what the minimum is, but I'd guess that it is larger than 4in. Don't know what the weight would be.

Doug

 

[erd]

Although if it couldn't open it, that would be half the battle. It's a fair point though (which did occur to me); I have an idea or two that would make the drum difficult or impossible for it to grasp. However, whether feasible or not, I don't know. The problem is that all existing drums are too big, in my estimation.

 

[tonycc]

I agree, both the real estate needs and weight of currently approved cannisters is inconvenient for backpacking, especially the light weight enthusiasts. I do really like the fact that I never again have to fight with getting a good hang for a bear bag after a long day on the trail.

I don't have much a problem with the diameter, the bearvault cannister fits nicely in my ultralight pack. The biggest inconvenience (other than the weight), to me, is the fact that they are rigid. This requires creative packing around the cannister to utilize the full volume of the pack and keep the pack comfortable on the back.

As far as other designs, I think the laws of physics are against smaller diameters. Having a lid that won't come off a small diameter cannister is like putting a good dead bolt on a door with a glass window. If you can figure out a way around this and get approval, I'll be there with my credit card.

I like the Ursack, but unfortunately it has not been approved for use. This is kind of a moot point right now since the manufacturer can't get the material, so they are currently out of production.

Here is a good page with some good links which discuss the testing and options around bear cannisters.
http://www.thru-hiker.com/articles.asp?subcat=1&cid=83

Tony

 

[1ADAM12]

Its about time

I am all for the regulation. I carried a canister with me for the first time last year. I did not have a problem fitting it on my pack at all. I agree with Tony....I will not miss having to find a hang for my bag or have to worry in the night if I will have food in the morning.

Also something had to be done and soon. It was just a matter of time before a camper/hiker was seriously injured or killed in the "high use" areas.

My two cents

Happy Hiking,
Adam

 

[crazymama]

I took a look at the NYS DEC website and it says that they are accepting comments on this proposed amendment through July 5, 2005. So I don't think its been approved yet.

Here is the link: http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/propregs/index.html#190p

 

[rhihn]

I took a look at the NYS DEC website and it says that they are accepting comments on this proposed amendment through July 5, 2005. So I don't think its been approved yet.

Here is the link: http://www.dec.state.ny.us/website/dfwmr/propregs/index.html#190p

I also recall reading that the target implementation date of the proposed regulations was early July, so I'm curious as to the origin of erd's notice that said "effective immediately." I'll also note that the regulation states "commercially made." I'm with Adam. I don't think it will be a total cure, but perhaps, over a period of years, a positive impact will be seen. As for compliance, it will be an interesting summer.

 

[erd]

The origin of the e-mail was Neil Woodworth, and was forwarded to me by a former chair of the local ADK chapter, so I wasn't (and am not) inclined to doubt its veracity. Still, the public comment period noted is interesting. I'll try to establish more.

Ted.

 

[Chip]

regulations or not, the bear canister should be used and will become defacto regardless.

 

[MattC]

Anybody know about how long this place does sales like this?http://www.wildernessdining.com/shopbybrand-bearvault.html
I'm on the fence about buying one right away and I'm wondering if this is about the best deal I can hope to find.

Matt

Edit: Just checked out more of their site and it looks like the sale is for the whole month of May. Still curious though, if I could hope to find an even better deal. This is a pretty good deal-maybe I should just go for it.

 

[Waumbek]

I've used steel storage lockers for food when backpacking in western parks (Tetons), and they've started to show up in WMNF now too. There's one up on the trail to So. Kinsman at the Eliza Brook Shelter that mysteriously disappears in the winter. I can see what the obvious advantage of the cannisters is; not everybody stays at an established shelter or campsite. But there's also the enforcement problem. It's the established sites where the major bear problems are in the ADKs, right? That's the only place I've had encounters with bears in the DAKs. Did DEC ever use lockers in the ADKs? If not, would it have helped? I'm wondering if USFS is trying to head off the headache of cannister enforcement with the lockers in WMNF.

 

[lumberzac]

Anybody know about how long this place does sales like this?http://www.wildernessdining.com/shopbybrand-bearvault.html
I'm on the fence about buying one right away and I'm wondering if this is about the best deal I can hope to find.

Matt

Edit: Just checked out more of their site and it looks like the sale is for the whole month of May. Still curious though, if I could hope to find an even better deal. This is a pretty good deal-maybe I should just go for it.

I bought the solo from Northern Mountain Supply. I signed up for their mailing list and got $6 knocked off the price, plus standard ground shipping was free.

http://www.northernmountain.com/NMS...=BEARVABearVaultBV250&Dept=KC&Cat=KCD&SubCat=

 

[crazymama]

I investigated this a little further, and found that the bear cannister rule was published in the NYS Register today, May 18, as a proposed rule and cannot be officially approved until after a 45 day period of public comment (May 18 to July 5 equals 45 days).

Perhaps someone read this today in the NYS Register and assumed it had been approved.

BTW, I am a big believer in bear cannisters. I love my Bear Vault. The size and weight is offset by the convenience of not hanging a bear bag, and the reassurance that my trip will not be ruined by loss of food.

 

[DougPaul]

Anybody know about how long this place does sales like this?http://www.wildernessdining.com/shopbybrand-bearvault.html
I'm on the fence about buying one right away and I'm wondering if this is about the best deal I can hope to find.

The BVR-300 was just on sale for 59.95 last week. Also at backcountry.com.
Both now back to regular price.

Do a froogle search--maybe it is still on sale somewhere.

Doug

 

[Mark]

Does anyone know of a source for carbon fiber tubing or drums of, say, 4" diameter? I have one or two ideas for bear-safe closures.

Ted.

From the wording of the text, it sounds like homemade canisters would not be accepted.

When I looked into making my own canister a few years ago, I gave up on the idea. I couldn't make one cheaper and lighter than the commercial models.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

I've used steel storage lockers for food........ I can see what the obvious advantage of the cannisters is; not everybody stays at an established shelter or campsite. ........ It's the established sites where the major bear problems are in the ADKs, right?

No, and that's the problem. There's a corridor from the Uphil Brook area, down to Lake Colden, through Avalanche Pass, to Marcy Dam, and through the Johns Brook Valley, even up to the Wolfjaws & Orebed Brook camping areas. They wuold have to have those steel storage lockers everywhere.

Encounters are most common at the main areas because there are more people there, but they are by no means limitted to those areas.

 

[Pete_Hickey]

When I looked into making my own canister a few years ago, I gave up on the idea. I couldn't make one cheaper and lighter than the commercial models.

Everyone I know who has tried, has come to the same conslusion.

 

[ADackR]

please, don't take this as an attack on anyone.... just an opinion....

well, just with everything in this country another rule must be made in order to control the human.... in this case the control will eventually help out the wild life... it's sad that it has come to this point but it seems some people can not take the responsibility on their own and learn ways to over come the bear problem... i.e. don't camp in the most popular areas, hang a bag in a different manor etc..

it seems that the popular take on camping and hiking as a result, is starting to dumb down the adventure. what happened to the time when going into the forest you had to have the knowledge to survive.... you had to know how to deal with every situation put in front of you... i mean, it seems now adays anyone can go into the forrests with the mindset of "if something goes wrong, somone will get me out of this mess"... i'm not saying that even if your the stongest or smartest person out there something isn't going to happen, because it does. i'm just saying that basis of knowledge is gone... it's gone to the point where rules must be laid out for the common denominator....

at one point that common denominator had the knowledge...

this rule will cause at least 6 people to not camp in the eastern high peaks region during the summer months... so i guess that's a good thing, right??