New Hampshire Fish and Game Search and Rescue Funding Hearing

[Tim Seaver]

In what way? I have climbed over 100 peaks in Colo and never saw anyplace where it was suggested I buy one, nor do I know anyone who has one. If they actually bill anyone who doesn't have one, I've never heard of it.

Shorter Version: If CORSAR cards are bought in the woods, and Roy didn't get wind of it...did it really happen?

CORSAR Card Program
The fund was initially established in recognition of the impacts hunters and other sportsmen have on small, underfunded, sheriffs' departments. Often counties with the fewest resources are the location of extensive hunting activity. Severe weather during big game season often results in significant demand for SAR services, hence the surcharge on hunting and fishing licenses. In recent years, however, more hikers, mountain bikers, rock and ice climbers, cross country skiers, kayakers, and other non-sportsmen (both residents and visitors alike) have discovered Colorado's backcountry. The CORSAR card program, initiated in 2002, is an attempt to create equity between sportsmen and other users of the backcountry in funding search and rescue.

The CORSAR card program is the voluntary mechanism for hikers, mountain
bikers, climbers, kayakers, and other non-sportsmen to participate in the fund. A one-year CORSAR card costs the buyer $3.00, places $2.00 in the SAR fund andpays $1.00 to the vendor. A five-year CORSAR card costs $12.00, with $9.00 going in to the SAR fund and paying $3.00 to the vendor. In 2010, CORSAR sales generated $62,601 in revenue. This represents an increase compared to 2009. Five-year card sales now represent approximately 42% of all cards sold, which is an increase of 4% over the previous year and a 9% increase since 2008. Despite mostly slow sales increases, CORSAR card sales remain a significant proportion of total revenues. In years 1996 through 2001, less than one percent of total revenues came from the sale of hiking certificates. In 2002, the first year of the CORSAR card, 4.1% of revenues came from voluntary purchases. In 2010 CORSAR card sales represented 15% of revenue. The revenue generated from CORSAR card sales has become a significant contribution toward the total fund balance. CORSAR card internet sales have increased substantially since becoming available in 2006. In FY2006 internet sales accounted for 357 cards sold. In FY2007 internet sales accounted for 1,394 cards sold (466-one year cards and 928-five year cards). In FY2008 the state internet portal took over internet sales, and the access was quicker and easier to use. The data goes directly into our database which reduces the data entry required and improves the efficiency of our system. In FY2010 internet sales accounted for 3,122 cards. This represents a 20% increase over last year. Out of state buyers represented nearly 34% of internet sales in FY2010.

$62k. That's good for a few chopper rides at the very least.

 

[Chip]

So if I got a real poncho and not a Sears poncho I would be taxed? ?

Yes, but the Real Poncho comes with a free Zappa MP3 download.

And another thing why can't eating granola and hunting mix?

They do. Granola is excellent deer bait.

I could, in theory, skirt the whole issue and hike in jeans, cotton sweatshirt & Timberland workboots

True, but this is where Karma kicks in and makes you twist an improperly clothed and untaxed ankle.

 

[griffin]

Well, we're splitting hairs. Maybe Coleman and GoreTex could decide which products they'd like to label "real" or not.

Speaking as a Masshole, though, I buy most of my gear close to home or online, not in New Hampshire. So that would put the burden unfairly on New Hampshire residents, no? (fwiw, that's what I meant by "equitable and sane" - that they don't just replace one grossly inequitable system with another - the proposed plan to add a fee/tax to AMC huts and backcountry tent sites comes to mind)

I think you'd have more luck getting the Feds to share revenue collected at existing parking areas than you would getting Mass (or other states) to impose and collect a tax for New Hampshire.

 

[Chip]

Speaking as a Masshole, though,.

That wasn't my moniker. I wonder what "they" call peeps from Ct ?

I buy most of my gear close to home or online, not in New Hampshire. .

Excellent point. Most ammo and firearms are bought locally, but that's changed too.

 

[RoySwkr]

Shorter Version: If CORSAR cards are bought in the woods, and Roy didn't get wind of it...did it really happen?

$62k. That's good for a few chopper rides at the very least.

If links were posted, it would be easier to find out how the program works. Apparently this is a voluntary donation you can make on the state website and there is no penalty for those who don't pay?

NH sells licenses online but apparently donations must be made by check
http://www.wildnh.com/Inside_FandG/donate.html
and who knows whether a prior donation will eliminate your helicopter bill.

 

[dug]

I wonder what "they" call peeps from Ct ?



.

We got no beef w/ CT, as long as you are considered a New Englander, not a New Yorker. I understand it's a Mason/Dixon thing there.

 

[Brambor]

american alpine club

Just steer everyone to the American Alpine club. A membership includes rescue insurance in entire US annd reciprocates with many world alpine clubs.

No need to localize this to NH because in the end you will end up paying more.

 

[Chip]

Just steer everyone to the American Alpine club. A membership includes rescue insurance in entire US annd reciprocates with many world alpine clubs.

No need to localize this to NH because in the end you will end up paying more.

I joined and looked into their insurance before Rainier. It's changed. It isn't a substitute at all; http://www.americanalpineclub.org/p/global_rescue

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Just steer everyone to the American Alpine club. A membership includes rescue insurance in entire US annd reciprocates with many world alpine clubs.

No need to localize this to NH because in the end you will end up paying more.

Hmm... maybe yes, maybe no on the American Alpine Club ($75/year membership). According to their website

"In order to qualify for reimbursement under the Domestic Medical Emergency Evacuation Insurance policy, an AAC member must be: (1) certified by Global Rescue or a licensed medical professional to require evacuation to prevent serious imminent bodily harm, injury or death; (2) located in the United States of America; and (3) must be beyond the trailhead. Please see the policy exclusions page."

Many of the NH F&G rescues find the victim, but he/she may not need medical care beyond that given back at the trailhead, or being checked out at the local hospital and released. And yet, F&G might rule the victim was negligent, and fine them. I have reservations with the AAC insurance would cover that type of claim.

Edit - opps, Chip beat me to it.

 

[RoySwkr]

Many of the NH F&G rescues find the victim, but he/she may not need medical care beyond that given back at the trailhead, or being checked out at the local hospital and released. And yet, F&G might rule the victim was negligent, and fine them. I have reservations with the AAC insurance would cover that type of claim.

In the infamous "Eagle Scout" case they didn't even find him - he essentially showed up at the summit under his own power but received a bill for $50k for their unsuccessful search. Even the ambulance ride down might not be covered by AAC as by then he wasn't really in any danger of "serious imminent bodily harm".

 

[bandana4me]

In the infamous "Eagle Scout" case they didn't even find him - he essentially showed up at the summit under his own power but received a bill for $50k for their unsuccessful search. Even the ambulance ride down might not be covered by AAC as by then he wasn't really in any danger of "serious imminent bodily harm".

This is what happens on controversial subjects. The fine was $25k:

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,533641,00.html

Personally, if you are provided a service, you NEED to pay for it!

Thanks for the update though, I am off on Tuesday and maybe I will head down to Concord to voice my opinion for charging for rescues!

True state moto: "Live pay FEES or die."

 

[Andrew]

Why do I have to pay at Monadnock, but not in Franconia Notch? Both are state parks...

Tim

Because at Monadnock the fees are only required at developed trailheads with facilities provided or staff present since the use requires management of the public use (Old Toll Rd. at the request of the landowner-SPNHF). Notice back trailheads (less used/SPNHF owned), donation suggested- money earmarked to provide rudimentary services at trailhead and for trail maintenance, also aids support of S&R efforts at Monadnock through the state park team.

The state park handles the bulk of the burden of S&R costs at Monadnock, but you rarely hear about it in the media unless F&G or local fire & rescue is involved with a lot of chatter caught on scanners.

Why isn't the fed giving a portion of the parking pass fees to NHF&G since the bulk of the calls seem to be from that property. Seems kinda simple to me?

 

[griffin]

Why isn't the fed giving a portion of the parking pass fees to NHF&G since the bulk of the calls seem to be from that property. Seems kinda simple to me?

New Hampshire does get money from the Fed, thanks to Craig for the links:

http://www.vftt.org/forums/showpost.php?p=358675&postcount=20

What that's earmarked for, I don't know.

Personally, if you are provided a service, you NEED to pay for it!

If I decide your car needs an oil change while you're out on the trail, and provide that service (whether or not you think you need it), can i bill you anyway? Just a thought.

 

[Raven]

How about a donation box (like a campground fee tube) at trailheads explaining that S+R is underfunded and the money may help save someone (maybe the donator)?

I for one am relatively generous with donations (small) but not so quick to agree to mandated fees. It has nothing to do with money. I'd donate in this way. I know they take donations already but a concerted effort at trail heads, visitor centers, gear stores, local businesses, and quite frankly any place that will take a tin can and sign, and maybe we have a solution. At the least, it will cut into the cost. We're not talking millions here. This shouldn't be hard to solve.

School groups/church groups/etc are constantly raising money for good causes. Bingo. Here's one.

If a mandatory fee or license is placed on all hikers for S+R, I may ask where I sign to "opt out." That doesn't mean I would or would not. I live in NH but still carry car insurance, although not much, and not always.

 

[wisher]

In what way?

I have climbed over 100 peaks in Colo and never saw anyplace where it was suggested I buy one, nor do I know anyone who has one. If they actually bill anyone who doesn't have one, I've never heard of it.

There is one 14er in Colorado, Culebra, that is $100 to buy a pass to climb it. That is a private solicitation, but there are some surprising tracts of land that are actually privately owned in the Rockies. I wonder how their SAR funding / support is comparatively?

 

[Creag Nan Drochaid]

NH F&G SAR cards + donation cans: YES! Taxes: NO!!

People, this strikes me as another part of the solution. In the Highlands of Scotland the local SAR teams have cans on many a counter in all kinds of establishments, tourist info centers etc. Go to the coast and they change to the white lifeboats of the Royal National Lifeboat Service. All voluntary, just as NH F&G SAR cards would be. They both plug into existing legal and social customs. Why do we not do this already? Lack or authorization? Then let's tell this committee and help get the needed law passed.

 

[dug]

Why not a bake sale?

 

[Chip]

Why not a bake sale?

That's not a bad idea. Next town over's fire department is nearly fully funded by a 3 day summer agricultural and amusements fair. SAR could do something similar in the Whites; admission, rides, food, tee shirts, bumper stickers, volunteers, demonstrations. I'd go.

Not to harp on it BUT; in Ct we have a 6.35% sales tax, higher gas taxes and a 3 to 6.7% income tax rate. That's thousands of dollars per year for my family. I'm not bragging, the state wastes most of that. If NH needs to raise revenues, sales and income taxes are an option. Personnally, like making a contribution, I'd rather pay a small annual license fee than be taxed on every purchase or on my income.

 

[Raven]

Personnally, like making a contribution, I'd rather pay a small annual license fee than be taxed on every purchase or on my income.

I have to agree with this.

 

[RoySwkr]

How about a donation box (like a campground fee tube) at trailheads explaining that S+R is underfunded and the money may help save someone (maybe the donator)?

There is a donation tube at Lafayette Place, but I assume it goes 100% to the state park system which also has funding issues.

Anybody here want to volunteer to write a cellphone app "text DSAR to donate 99 cents to NH SAR"? Cell phone users seem to diffuse small amounts readily.