new memorial plaque on Mount Clay

[blacknblue]

I was hiking over Mount Clay today and noticed there is a prominent plaque on a rock as you are scrambling up the southern end of the Mount Clay Loop. The name was something like "Carol Mari Nunez," with the dates 1966-2007. I may have the name not quite right, but I'm 99% sure that the date was 2007, making this a very recent addition to all the memorials in the Presidentials.

Does anybody know anything about this? Did she die in that vicinity? If not, why is the plaque placed there?

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I wondered the same thing. No hits on Google.



Tim

 

[Waumbek]

No hits on Google.

The obituary of Carol M. Nunes, 40, comes up on a google search for "Carol Nunes."

 

[Fisher Cat]

I noticed the obit mentions she passed away in New Bristol, CT, but does mention death in anyway related to the Whites, which it could be, but no idea.
Anyone dying is tragic, so I don't ask this to minimize this case, but are there instances where that is permissible, or is it not regulated? We see makeshift memorials on the side of highways and all.
Again, I'm not heartless, I'm just curious. Anybody know?

 

[bikehikeskifish]

I asked the same question here: http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=18819&page=2&pp=40

And I Googled for her full name... D'Oh.

Tim

 

[Fisher Cat]

There are some memorials that make sense, even if they have been removed or deteriorated with time. Such as ones from Bourne, Curtis & Ormsbee, Albert Dow, and so on.Then there are others like the plaque for Edmands in the Col, for a great trailbuilder. But shouldn't it stop there ? There are plenty of other options, people can have a memorial tree or bench in a local park. Is there a need here in the mountains (or any other mountains)to place plaques by private decision? Where would it stop?
I think its a question worth asking but where does one go? Forest Service, AMC?
Sorry Tim, I didn't mean to trample on a question/comment you already made!

 

[bikehikeskifish]

No offense taken. Not everyone reads every thread. I didn't get an answer to either "Who was Carol..." or "What are limits for memorials..."

I genuinely enjoyed the solitude on Clay in early October and was struck by this plaque as Carol was only a year younger than me. Given the obit, it is likely she was killed in a car accident or something. No obvious connection to the mountains, except perhaps she loved it there. Which begs that question again...

Tim

 

[David Metsky]

I think its a question worth asking but where does one go? Forest Service, AMC?

Assuming on Forest Service land, you'd want to talk to the USFS. This happens fairly frequently in the Whites (and I'm sure in all mountains) and I would suspect they have procedures for removing unauthorized monuments.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

Assuming on Forest Service land, you'd want to talk to the USFS. This happens fairly frequently in the Whites (and I'm sure in all mountains) and I would suspect they have procedures for removing unauthorized monuments.

Dave - are you suggesting that this may be an unauthorized monument?

 

[RoySwkr]

Dave - are you suggesting that this may be an unauthorized monument?

I'd be sure of it, this is a Wilderness area. I'm sure it will be gone when the process takes hold.

 

[blacknblue]

I don't know whether or not it was authorized, but this particular plaque had a lot of time and effort invested into it. It wasn't a pile of rocks with a flower and a polaroid attached. It was very professionally done and very well affixed to the rock, which made it seem very 'official' to me, for whatever that's worth. Which, of course, makes its backstory all the more curious.

 

[psmart]

There were so many people who wanted a plaque or monmument in the WMNF that the USFS no longer allows new memorials. This is not a Wilderness issue - the same policy applies in non-Wilderness areas.

New plaques do continue to appear, but are subject to removal by the USFS.

 

[Rols]

If I was to have a memorial (a legal one of course!) Clay would be one of the spots where I would love to have it. It is a summit that is too often bypassed and yet it has great views of both Jeff & George.

 

[Fisher Cat]

If I was to have a memorial (a legal one of course!) Clay would be one of the spots where I would love to have it. It is a summit that is too often bypassed and yet it has great views of both Jeff & George.

Lord knows there's plenty of great spots for a plaque, no shortage there!That's half the problem, everybody could think of a place they would want, but then they would be everywhere! I do believe USFS should remove them but I hope they would have the decency to try to return something like that to immediate family members, cause as was said, someone paid for it.

 

[psmart]

I do believe USFS should remove them but I hope they would have the decency to try to return something like that to immediate family members, cause as was said, someone paid for it.

In fact, I believe the FS attempts to contact whoever placed the plaque and ask them to remove it themselves. They try to tread pretty lightly on this kind of issue.

There seem to be quite a few plaques scattered around the WMNF. In order to reduce the chances of removal, some are well hidden, like these plaques in a crevice on Mt. Whiteface in 2002. They were pretty well hidden. I don't know if they're still there.

.

 

[Fisher Cat]

In fact, I believe the FS attempts to contact whoever placed the plaque and ask them to remove it themselves. They try to tread pretty lightly on this kind of issue.

If that's the case, I'm glad to hear it. I do agree that it is an issue to be handled in the most humane manner. This is after all a grievous loss in any case and/or situation for anyone to deal with.

 

[adamiata]

It wouldn't take much for just anyone to mount something like this, I don't think.

All you'd need is a flat spot, a hand drill, and some epoxy. Just like putting in bolts for climbing.

 

[Fisher Cat]

I talked to Alex D. at AMC via email and he provided the following email in response to the plaque. It sounds like co-operation between us as hikers, the AMC, and the responsible USFS office for the areas where these are found will net good results. At least now and in the future we can make them aware of what is going on and what we find and hopefully prevent it from becoming a more widespread problem.
Here's the email sent to Alex:

Hi Alex,
Me again, sorry the last email was so garbled, you can tell how much time I spend on the computer. Here is a link to a photo of the plaque found on Clay.
Thanks,
Scott Lang
http://outdoors.webshots.com/photo/2270912450097994563wGqQzj


Here's the email in return:

Scott,

You are correct, monuments are not allowed on USFS lands and there is a process
for removal of such unauthorized objects.

For example, a family just donated funds to support the construction of the new
AMC Kinsman Pond Shelter in the Whites. The family that donated the money,
donated it in their father's name and had a plaque made to honor him. That
plaque could not be hung at the Shelter because it is on USFS property. So, the
plaque is hung outside of Lonesome Lake Hut on NH State Park Lands (with
permission from the state), 1.9 miles away from the shelter. So, we (AMC) can
not get around regulations regarding plaques in the forest either.

These should be forwarded over to the Trails Supervisor of the USFS or the
Dispersed Recreation Manager in the USFS for the appropriate district.

I will take care of forwarding this on to the Andro District Trails Folks.

Thanks,

-Alex

 

[albee]

I don't agree that people should have memorials placed on summits like this one was, but why have you taken such lengths to report it to the USFS? Wouldn't it be more respectful to the family to let the rangers find it themselves and deal with it in due course? Raising awareness in the hiking community that this is frowned upon is one thing, but no offense - complaining about it to the USFS just doesn't seem appropriate, in my opinion.

 

[giggy]

My wilderness experience will be ruined by seeing this on mt clay. Pull out all the stops to get this off the rock now in the name of justice.
oh and then I woke up and realized up in front of me is a huge tower and building - below me a a train is coming up the peak and if I really squint, I can see a hut over yonder on the ridge to the SW..

got to go with the albee on this one - someone just lost a freind or family member - to rat out someone b/c of this - seems odd to me. you wouldn't last a day in southie.

even though, your probably doing the right thing I guess...

beer beer beer