Nice or Necessary for winter hiking

[The Hikers]

I , too, have a problem with fingers and toes.(perhaps because I have 0% extra fat). I find if I start off with cold hands, they will never warm up, so one thing we have started to do is lock those poles at length the night before the hike, so we don't have to take off the gloves and freeze our hands tightening the poles just before the hike.
I have considered raising the hood of the car and pre-warming my hands on the engine before setting off, but haven't tried this yet.
And bless the touch pad on the car door so we don't have to fish for keys when we get back!!

 

[Tuco]

I , too, have a problem with fingers and toes.(perhaps because I have 0% extra fat). I find if I start off with cold hands, they will never warm up, so one thing we have started to do is lock those poles at length the night before the hike, so we don't have to take off the gloves and freeze our hands tightening the poles just before the hike.
I have considered raising the hood of the car and pre-warming my hands on the engine before setting off, but haven't tried this yet.
And bless the touch pad on the car door so we don't have to fish for keys when we get back!!

To battle starting off cold, I have tried doing what Rols has recommended to me a couple of times in winter. Stop off in advance of the trailhead and get ready for the hike (finish organizing the pack, gaiters, etc) and then drive to the trailhead. You can then get out of the car, strap on the pack and whatever final items need to go on and you spend a lot less time losing heat before hiking.

Beaver Brook is a favorite of ours, with the lovely bathrooms

Nothing is perfect, cold is cold, but frequently those long prep sessions right at the trailhead drain a lot of warmth from the body IMO.

 

[MadRiver]

I , too, have a problem with fingers and toes...I have considered raising the hood of the car and pre-warming my hands on the engine before setting off, but haven't tried this yet.

I also have cold hands and feet, which is a side effect of my medication. I do not wear my Koflachs while driving because my feet will start to sweat in the car so I put them on once I arrive. I switch to the passenger side and place my feet on the car heater to warm them just before putting my feet into the inner bootie. It looks a tad strange especially in a kilt, but it warms my feet just before the hike. I do the same thing will my hands just before turning the car off and heading out.

 

[adktyler]

On keeping hands warm

Here is a quote from one of my favorite articles on keeping hands warm:

"I find that repeatedly warming your hands can get them through a cold stretch, perhaps climbing a cold pitch of rock with out gloves. This can mean a quick reheat between moves, warming your fingers just enough to feel what you’re holding. One thing I avoid is breathing on my hands, as this increases evaporative heat loss (via the dampness in your breath). A better solution is place your fingers on your neck, in your hair, or under an arm pit. Just hold it for a few seconds then carry on. Another option is to keep rubbing them hard, which not only increases blood flow, but also helps to reduce evaporate heat loss – as you tend t wipe moisture off as you do so. Also don’t forget the child hood trick up just pulling your hands up into your sleeves."

"Your wrists are a major source of heat loss, so you need to keep them covered – either by wearing garments that feature thumb loops in the sleeve, or by buying/making wrist-overs, that extend down over the wrist. This can be easily made from a pair of socks and work well with or without a thumb loop. "

"If you’re dehydrated you blood flow will decrease to your extremities, meaning cold fingers and toes. Also eating some fat will boost your warmth – so maybe take along a bit of sausage! "

"Rotate the shoulders forward up and back in a circular motion for about 30 seconds, then rotate the wrists in both directions for the same length of time. Another option is to make a fist without bending your fingers (The final joint of your fingers is not bent.) " (the fast, rotational "flying" motion with the arms has been mentioned before).

I hope that helps.

 

[Chip]

Looks like the SVEA does not need priming. If I am wrong, please correct me.
Do you have to mess around with a small amount of gas in small cup to light it?
I have an older MSR and don't especially like all the extra. Fuel line attached to bottle, the priming, the praying, the windscreen, etc.
This thing even had it's own pot. It looks so much simpler to use.

All white gas stoves need to be primed. Some have pumps that help get the process started and keeps the job cleaner. The Svea's, Optimus' and MSR's that I've used all have needed a little burning fuel in the cup to get the tank properly pressurized. If you don't like the fluid fuel priming you can also use Fire Paste, but that leaves a sooty mess and is one more thing you need to carry.

 

[DougPaul]

Does anybody remember a couple of years ago when the Natick labs had a therapy for encouraging blood flow to the hands in cold? Something to do with alternating cold and warm-water immersion. I can't seem to find it back (and want to try it.)

See
http://www.vftt.org/forums/showpost.php?p=121249&postcount=9
and
http://www.vftt.org/forums/showpost.php?p=59836&postcount=22

It is also worth reading the enclosing threads.

Doug

 

[The Hikers]

The downside of exam gloves is that your hands will sweat inside, and the moisture will not escape. So if you remove them in the sub-zero windchill.......... better not.

 

[DougPaul]

The downside of exam gloves is that your hands will sweat inside, and the moisture will not escape.

Keeping the moisture inside the glove is the entire point of the technique.

Doug

 

[The Hikers]

That's right Doug. Once on, keep'em on until you're in the warmth.

 

[RoySwkr]

I always figure, if I have the mobility, energy and time to putter around building a fire in winter, why am I not hiking out? And if someone else is cold, can I really create a fire that will keep this person warm?

One trick is to choose a good place to build the fire if you can.

The last time I built a fire in winter, I was breaking trail by myself in heavy snow and trying to avoid cramps so I was resting a lot. Usually this was just leaning against a tree, but every so often I would lie down in a space blanket with a candle - once I fell asleep and woke up when the backing caught fire! For my last long rest, I was in an area with several blowdowns and lots of birch bark so I decided to build a real fire and it was nice sitting next to it instead of a candle! I even carried some extra birch bark in case I wanted to do that again but instead used it to start wood stove at home.

 

[RoySwkr]

I attach a 6" loop of parachute cord to each mitten and glove.

My mother used to keep her mittens on a mountaineering harness, which is a fancy version of something often done with kids. Basically your mitten is attached to a string running up your arm to the harness so if you take it off it just hangs until you want it, particularly good if it might otherwise blow away.

 

[sardog1]

Looks like the SVEA does not need priming. If I am wrong, please correct me.
Do you have to mess around with a small amount of gas in small cup to light it?
I have an older MSR and don't especially like all the extra. Fuel line attached to bottle, the priming, the praying, the windscreen, etc.
This thing even had it's own pot. It looks so much simpler to use.

A SVEA does need priming. Here's how I do it year-round and reliably. It may look a little hairy at first, but follow the directions and you'll be OK:

Do not buy a priming pump, even though it's offered by the maker. It's extra weight, extra cost, and an extra chance to overpressurize the tank. You'll hear from others with contrary opinions.

Do not carry an eyedropper for squirting priming fuel around the base of the burner head. The method described below does a better job by preheating the fuel for reliable lighting. You'll hear from others with contrary opinions.

Carry a few extra matches in summer and a candle in winter.

Fill the tank, replace the tank cap, and make sure that no fuel has slopped onto the stove sides or your hands or clothing.

Have an extra match or two standing by ready for lighting -- you'll see why later.

Open the valve and heat the bottom of the tank with a match or two (summer) or candle (winter.) (Don't use the standby matches for this.)

Watch carefully for fuel to start rising out of the valve and down into the topmost cup around the fuel orifice. As soon as you get some fuel in that tiny cup, extinguish the match/candle flame and close the valve. You WILL be able to do this safely, if you don't overdo the heating so that fuel comes squirting out. (You'll hear from others with contrary opinions.) Don't heat so much that fuel collects in any appreciable quantity at the base of the burner assembly on the top of the tank. In really, really cold weather, you might need to let a little accumulate around the base of the burner head.

Light the fuel that came out of the orifice and let it burn down almost to going out.

Open the valve and relight as necessary with your standby match(es.)

If you screw up and you can't get it lit, close the valve, let it cool down, open and reclose the fuel cap when you can safely handle the stove with bare hands, and start over. (If it's very cold, you may need to handle the stove with gloves, but let it cool to hand-holding temperature first.)

You may see some nonsense about being able to preheat the fuel just from the warmth from your hands around the tank. It's not reliable in summer and impossible in winter, in my experience. I seriously doubt that you'll hear from anyone with a contrary opinion on this one.

Don't attempt to light a SVEA inside a tent until you're well-practiced in your preferred technique. If you're outside and you screw up, smother with heaps of snow or pitch the flaming stove into a snowbank -- it will cool down the stove and extinguish it pretty quickly. If it's summer, be sure not to pitch it into the pitchpines . . .

Once you master the lighting technique, you can count on roaring (sorry, MadRiver) heat for an hour, at temps way below zero. Remember to clean the orifice occasionally with the cleaning needle. Every ten-twenty years or so, replace the gasket on the tank cap. Do nothing else and your SVEA will be your treasured backcountry companion for decades, even better maybe than your dog.

 

[jfb]

All white gas stoves need to be primed. Some have pumps that help get the process started and keeps the job cleaner. The Svea's, Optimus' and MSR's that I've used all have needed a little burning fuel in the cup to get the tank properly pressurized. If you don't like the fluid fuel priming you can also use Fire Paste, but that leaves a sooty mess and is one more thing you need to carry.

For priming my Peak 442 white gas stove, after pressurizing the tank, I take a small piece of a cotton ball and place it underneath the fuel tube then add a few drops of gas with an eyedropper. The cotton absorbs the fuel and prevents it from running off. Light the cotton and let the small flame heat up the fuel tube. Just before the flame goes out, open the valve and you'll get a blue flame with no flare-up. Because the cotton gets consumed, there's no mess.

 

[Tim Seaver]

Cozy Toes and Cozy Hands!

I usually go with handwarmers in light pile gloves right from the trailhead, unless it's unusually warm. My hands may get a bit sweaty this way at times, but I find that my hands will stay much warmer over the course of the day. It also allows me to fiddle around with gear or cameras barehanded for short periods, without them losing enough heat to become a problem.

I sometimes use the heat packs inside my camera chest pouch to help reheat the camera slightly between shooting when its in the single digits.

The other place I have two sets of heat packs is permanently packed along with my Blizzard Survival Bag, to help protect my hands and feet from frostbite in case of a forced sub-zero bivy.

Considering how vital the use of your hands is when the going gets rough, and how little the heat packs weigh, I would put the chemical warmers pretty high on the list of things to always bring.

 

[The Lisa]

The straps you added sound like "idiot loops" that are pretty much standard issue on most mitts/gloves these days...yours didn't have them? I have an old pair of BD gloves that didn't, so I added them, but I don't recall seeing any/many current issue handgear without them.

Yes, idiot straps is the term I have heard used about them. For some reason very few of my gloves came with them so had to make my own. At least I know they are idiotproof.

And on the 'warm hands' topic, yes hand and foot warmers are essential on the winter packing list. I resort to them as a last......resort. I find wiggling my fingers and toes will eventually warm them up and it is indeed possible to walk while wiggling ones toes. It may take 10-15 minutes so you have to be patient.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

...New this year: Stuff sacks (love em), Pad - I got a full-sized Z-rest. I notice some people cut this just big enough to sleep on. Thoughts on this?

Tim

Why cut it down? You don't save much in weight - maybe an ounce or two? If buying it new, they come in 3/4 length. But, if you already own a full-length one - I'd leave well enough alone.

For a sit pad at rest stops, I carry a "granny pad". They sell them in the spring at the hardware stores for kneeling in the flower beds. They're about 12"x20"x1" and have a handle on the end. Usually cost about a buck. I usually carry it year-round - stuff it behind the beavertail. It could double as a magazine splint as Doug suggests.

 

[hikingfish]

ALL THE TIME! It's quite frustrating. I did see a solution once. One of my climbing partners (a professional mountaineer and rock wall owner) had a pair of Marmot gloves with a little loop on the top of the middle finger (good place for it, ), so he could clip it onto something and it would then be upside down. It seemed to work really well for him. I haven't seen anything like it since then, and I'm not sure why. Besides the possible snagging hazard, it seems like it would work really well.
At this point I usually just put my gloves in one of my water bottle pockets on the side of my pack.

AHhhhhhhh! So that's what those little loops on the middle fingers are for!!!

Geez, they should provide you with a manual or something...

Fish

 

[hikingmaineac]

Just thought I'd resurrect this thread. It's a good one.

 

[MonadnockVol]

Blizzard Survival Bag

The other place I have two sets of heat packs is permanently packed along with my Blizzard Survival Bag, to help protect my hands and feet from frostbite in case of a forced sub-zero bivy.

I'm glad this thread was resurrected. I was interested in Tim's reference to the Blizzard Survival Bag as I was unfamiliar with this product and I usually carry a light summer down bag and bivy bag when I hike above treeline in winter (and always if I'm solo or in a small party). Has Tim or anyone else actually had to use one and what was their experience?

 

[John H Swanson]

Nutralize velcro flaps that you don't want to catch all the time by applying a separate piece of velcro purchased from a fabric store.

Saved a few people with 5 minute sewing repairs. As it is really tough to thread a needle at -5 with a 20mph wind, carry needles pre-threaded with dental floss to do repairs.

Make sure your pack is big enough to fit everything easily. No sense having to struggle to get your pack repacked.

Cut your neoprene face mask with a profile to perfectly match your goggles - no exposed skin surfaces without the overlap that leads to goggle fogging. Punch oversized holes near the mouth to all for good air flow when your sucking wind.

Carry your water in an insulator on your hip to avoid the inefficiency of having to stop and dig out the bottle to drink.

Use only one ski pole to allow you to do things while you hike. Move the pole back and forth between hands to allow the free hand to warm up. Use a long pole - arm pit length. It helps on the large step-ups and downs.

Sometime I'm hot and cold at the same time. Especially when there is wind. I use earmuffs alot to protect my ears while the sweat pours off my head.

2 x 15ft and 1 x 3ft of 4mm climbing cord for improvided repairs

cottonball soaked in wax for fire starter. small lightwight long burn time and no container required.

cut up the energy bars to facilitate eating.