Ninkovich ATV Park
- Thread starter NHClimber
- Start date
Help Support vftt.org:
peakbagger
In Rembrance , July 2024
There is second similar size development described in a bit more detail in the Berlin Daily Sun (paywall) today which is east across RT 110 just announced and another one to the south of Jericho Lake Park that was announced over the last few years. There are several large land owners adjacent to the park speculating on using someones else's money to build major developments around the park using cut over former timberland. To date despite a lot of publicity and major events, the actual development near Jericho State Park has been two ATV dealers have opened and a former warehouse has been renovated into a spec building. I guess in the case of the Ninkovich development there is someone who actually has money in their pocket to possibly follow through and plenty of locals will be there to help him spend it. Even the state had very aggressive plans to build out the state park campgrounds near the lake but progress has been painfully slow due to lack of funding. The biggest benefits to Berlin has been stabilization and increased property values in the city. Berlin has a surplus of low cost homes that long ago supported workers at the local pulp mill for decades, ATV owners have bought many homes in town as weekend places and possible retirement homes. They are fixing them up and driving the values up considerably from what were extremely low prior prices.
Last edited:
Interesting. If it helps the local area then seems a net positive. Jericho Motorsports used to be right there. Is that under new ownership? I thought it had closed at one point.
nartreb
Well-known member
That puts a bit of perspective on things. I didn't want to read too much into the article which clearly wasn't based on much more than a press release, but I got the distinct feeling the new ATV "destination" wasn't all that well planned out as a money-making business. I suspected some of the partners had some other angle. There's the guy who would sell the ATVs, obviously, but there's still the question of how you get enough customers to come up from Boston or whereever they actually live, and where they would stay, especially in winter. "Big resort hotel with heated indoor swimming pool" was conspicuously absent from the plans...
Mike P.
Well-known member
I'm happy for the ATV riders and the area as private landowners building something on their land for public use is the best way for it to use.
I'm leery of it being built near and adjoining other trails. I defer to those who know exactly where the property is as it concerns hiker use. (Why would I hike in a mixed used area if I can drive a little further, or in many cases, less and hike in the Northern Presidentials, The Crescents and the AT north of Route 2. I'd prefer no fumes, no engine noises and avoid the risk, however small of being hit, same small percentage when walking on snowmobile trails, I've always had good interactions with sleds BTW. )
Much like other activities, including hiking, it just takes a few bad actors, a small percentage of the whole, to ignore signs on trespassing or that areas are not all for uses or drop liter everywhere. Does being near adjoining trail systems allow those few bad actors access to places we would be upset about? IDK
I'm leery of it being built near and adjoining other trails. I defer to those who know exactly where the property is as it concerns hiker use. (Why would I hike in a mixed used area if I can drive a little further, or in many cases, less and hike in the Northern Presidentials, The Crescents and the AT north of Route 2. I'd prefer no fumes, no engine noises and avoid the risk, however small of being hit, same small percentage when walking on snowmobile trails, I've always had good interactions with sleds BTW. )
Much like other activities, including hiking, it just takes a few bad actors, a small percentage of the whole, to ignore signs on trespassing or that areas are not all for uses or drop liter everywhere. Does being near adjoining trail systems allow those few bad actors access to places we would be upset about? IDK
peakbagger
In Rembrance , July 2024
The Jericho trail development is along RT 110 which is one of the state roads long ago rebuilt to service the Pulp and paper industry in Groveton and Berlin/Gorham that is just hanging on by the barest of threads since the latest bankruptcy of the last papermill in Gorham (there is a company that is going to run it until the assets are sorted out and interested in keeping it running). The WMNF declaration boundary along RT 110 includes most if not all of the Jericho Lake State Park but it had a very large inholding of Brown Company land (the original pulp and Paper Mill owner in Berlin. One of the long line of companies that followed Brown sold this inholding to Hancock Insurance company (the same firm that bought the land that would become the Randolph Community Forest to the south west). Unlike the Randolph land, the Jericho land and the majority of of adjoining lands were sold to JR Dillon a notorious lumber liquidator. They stripped whatever value they could from the land and sold the rest to the state of NH at a profit from a fund started from a surcharge on NH ATV registrations to buy ATV access around the state. Berlin was in dire straits at the time and the Jericho purchase was a "bone" to throw at Berlin for tourism based economic development.
Luckily Jericho is adjacent to the underutilized portion of the national forest. Its a valley that flows to Jericho Lake which is a large artificial lake built for flood control. The closest hiking trail is one valley away to the west and I expect few hikers except redliners have ever heard of the Landing Camp trail off the Bog Dam loop road accessed from York Pond. Black Crescent Mountain is at the south end of the tract but at 3267 and no views it rarely gets visited except for folks working on more obscure peak lists. Therefore the Jericho ATV traffic pretty well has their own private playground that is isolated from most of the National Forest.
My guess for the Ninkovich purchase is its another piece of the Dillon cut over timberland outside the WMNF declaration boundary. The problem with Jericho State Park and this purchase is that while the Jericho ATV park was starting to grow, Ride the Wilds a much larger initiative to build ATV trails in northern NH was also growing. 7000 acres sounds like a lot to a homeowner but to a ATV or snowmachine owners that is a quick jaunt before lunch to cover the entire acreage. The trail connections to Ride the Wilds from Jericho are not that great https://ridethewilds.nhgrand.com/getting-around/atv-maps/ and since the area is bounded to the west and north by the WMNF better trail access to Ride the Wilds is not going to improve unless someone takes on a major effort to convince a lot of private landowners to give them access. Therefore Jericho State Park is currently a sort of the sandbox for new and rental ATVs folks to try things out for the first few trips but eventually they graduate to the big time and head north. Berlin lacks key tourist accommodations like a motel so most visitors stay in Gorham and then drive up to Jericho via the Ride the Wilds connector trail. Jericho Motorsports did locate a store to sell ATV equipment but never figured out that rentals were the moneymaker. Dalton Mountain Motorsports established a store just up the road and stole a lot of their thunder. Jericho has reopened under new management but both businesses avoid the rental trade.
There was an expectation that the area would be flooded for demand for drive up fully campgrounds with full services. It really hasnt happened, yes the two local campground owners along RT2 in Shelburne are happy and Moose Brook State Park gets a lot more use but none of those campgrounds have ATV trails access. I don't think it has substantially increased full time employment locally. The vast majority of jobs created are seasonal or event type part time jobs with zero benefits. It has helped some seasonal snowmobile businesses to expand from closed 9 months of the year to open 9 to 10 months of the year which makes their owners happy. The local realtors are doing well as the home prices were so low that many ATV folks just buy homes in Berlin and in a limited part of Gorham with trail access to use as weekend retreats. The new owners seem to pay their taxes and utilities which is major improvement to empty homes owned by absentee landlords and they tend to fix them up. Its a variation on a long running theme in rural areas that tourism based development is better than nothing but its a major step down from the factory jobs that were prevalent in the area 30 years ago.
That part of Berlin does not have public sewer so development costs are steep. Several ATV development proposals have been made over the years but they have all fallen down in that the cash flow can not cover the payments on the upfront investment Thus if someone has the interest and cash and wants to invest it for the long term maybe there is adequate return.
As for has the boom been "good or bad" for the area, that is an ongoing debate. The "good" folks tend to have the bully pulpit and love to yell their variation of good. The "bad"" contingent tend to lose the shouting match. There has been a steady stream of folks trying to get away from it all that moved north of RT 2 for decades, usually in the towns out of sight of the Berlin and Groveton mills that object to ATV traffic on rural roads that previously got little traffic. They are told that they arent going with the flow and if they dont like it sell. Jericho on the other hand is contained, if you dont want to see or hear it just dont turn left onto the road to the lake.
Luckily Jericho is adjacent to the underutilized portion of the national forest. Its a valley that flows to Jericho Lake which is a large artificial lake built for flood control. The closest hiking trail is one valley away to the west and I expect few hikers except redliners have ever heard of the Landing Camp trail off the Bog Dam loop road accessed from York Pond. Black Crescent Mountain is at the south end of the tract but at 3267 and no views it rarely gets visited except for folks working on more obscure peak lists. Therefore the Jericho ATV traffic pretty well has their own private playground that is isolated from most of the National Forest.
My guess for the Ninkovich purchase is its another piece of the Dillon cut over timberland outside the WMNF declaration boundary. The problem with Jericho State Park and this purchase is that while the Jericho ATV park was starting to grow, Ride the Wilds a much larger initiative to build ATV trails in northern NH was also growing. 7000 acres sounds like a lot to a homeowner but to a ATV or snowmachine owners that is a quick jaunt before lunch to cover the entire acreage. The trail connections to Ride the Wilds from Jericho are not that great https://ridethewilds.nhgrand.com/getting-around/atv-maps/ and since the area is bounded to the west and north by the WMNF better trail access to Ride the Wilds is not going to improve unless someone takes on a major effort to convince a lot of private landowners to give them access. Therefore Jericho State Park is currently a sort of the sandbox for new and rental ATVs folks to try things out for the first few trips but eventually they graduate to the big time and head north. Berlin lacks key tourist accommodations like a motel so most visitors stay in Gorham and then drive up to Jericho via the Ride the Wilds connector trail. Jericho Motorsports did locate a store to sell ATV equipment but never figured out that rentals were the moneymaker. Dalton Mountain Motorsports established a store just up the road and stole a lot of their thunder. Jericho has reopened under new management but both businesses avoid the rental trade.
There was an expectation that the area would be flooded for demand for drive up fully campgrounds with full services. It really hasnt happened, yes the two local campground owners along RT2 in Shelburne are happy and Moose Brook State Park gets a lot more use but none of those campgrounds have ATV trails access. I don't think it has substantially increased full time employment locally. The vast majority of jobs created are seasonal or event type part time jobs with zero benefits. It has helped some seasonal snowmobile businesses to expand from closed 9 months of the year to open 9 to 10 months of the year which makes their owners happy. The local realtors are doing well as the home prices were so low that many ATV folks just buy homes in Berlin and in a limited part of Gorham with trail access to use as weekend retreats. The new owners seem to pay their taxes and utilities which is major improvement to empty homes owned by absentee landlords and they tend to fix them up. Its a variation on a long running theme in rural areas that tourism based development is better than nothing but its a major step down from the factory jobs that were prevalent in the area 30 years ago.
That part of Berlin does not have public sewer so development costs are steep. Several ATV development proposals have been made over the years but they have all fallen down in that the cash flow can not cover the payments on the upfront investment Thus if someone has the interest and cash and wants to invest it for the long term maybe there is adequate return.
As for has the boom been "good or bad" for the area, that is an ongoing debate. The "good" folks tend to have the bully pulpit and love to yell their variation of good. The "bad"" contingent tend to lose the shouting match. There has been a steady stream of folks trying to get away from it all that moved north of RT 2 for decades, usually in the towns out of sight of the Berlin and Groveton mills that object to ATV traffic on rural roads that previously got little traffic. They are told that they arent going with the flow and if they dont like it sell. Jericho on the other hand is contained, if you dont want to see or hear it just dont turn left onto the road to the lake.
Andrew
Active member
The original owner Randy sold the business and moved south. He was one of the originators of the whole Berlin ATV effort, I interacted with him quite a bit and it became apparent after a few years that business did not become what he had hoped soon enough- so they struggled. I think it was actually before Dalton Mt Motorsports opened that he sold. The new business at the same location is now Jericho Outdoors. I did not enjoy doing business with the new owners as much as Randy.
ChrisB
Well-known member
I really think they need a better name. Ninkovich?
Maybe: Wild North Woods Adventure Trails
Maybe: Wild North Woods Adventure Trails
ChrisB
Well-known member
Build it and they will come...
Here's an Update on the Jericho Gateway ATV park under development.
Good story about the guy behind it and his local NH roots. And the planning board is on board for Phase 1.
Here's an Update on the Jericho Gateway ATV park under development.
Good story about the guy behind it and his local NH roots. And the planning board is on board for Phase 1.
Last edited:
peakbagger
In Rembrance , July 2024
He seems to be bit more active than the Ninkovich group.
Once the trails reopened the local snowmobile rental place in Gorham has been packed.
The latest news is the ATV rental in place in Gorham that expanded to a new building a year ago is planning to expand to the former Burger King for ATV rentals. They are so busy they just do not have enough parking or capacity. I am waiting to see what firm moves in to compete with him.
There is also a brew pub going for permits in Gorham.
Once the trails reopened the local snowmobile rental place in Gorham has been packed.
The latest news is the ATV rental in place in Gorham that expanded to a new building a year ago is planning to expand to the former Burger King for ATV rentals. They are so busy they just do not have enough parking or capacity. I am waiting to see what firm moves in to compete with him.
There is also a brew pub going for permits in Gorham.
Andrew
Active member
Burger King in Gorham is closed now? I haven't been over there since last March. I always thought Gorham was a little odd with it's main street national chain restaurant presence, so now over the recent past KFC, Pizza Hut, and BK are gone.
I have always been surprised that no one started a brewpub in Gorham, sure Salt has their thing and the brick oven pizza (now closed) place had some of that atmosphere, but a brewpub may be one of the missing secret ingredients.
I have always been surprised that no one started a brewpub in Gorham, sure Salt has their thing and the brick oven pizza (now closed) place had some of that atmosphere, but a brewpub may be one of the missing secret ingredients.
peakbagger
In Rembrance , July 2024
The Burger King in Gorham was originally owned by the same developer that owned the Pizza Hut. The original developer was tied to the Tamposi clan that were linked to former governor John Sununu. Some background https://www.nytimes.com/1991/08/03/business/tale-of-political-ties-and-bad-debt.html. At one point building fast food joints in areas that could not support them with borrowed money was a popular investment technique (many of the Wendys franchises suffered the same fate). Unlike Mc Donals franchisees that do extensive research on viability, many of the subsequent developers just plopped up franchises across the street from Mc Donalds and assumed they coulc cannibalize McDonalds trade. The Burger King in Gorham never really did a great amount of year round business. After the Tamposi collapse, the business was put up for sale and since there were no interested buyers, it was taken over by Burger King corporate and eventually it was handed off to the franchisee in North Conway to run. The Gorham location just didnt make the volume and management was poor so for most locals it was the second choice. It also seemed to have the bottom of the barrel for employees. They rarely lasted long and expect the other tourist attractions used them as an employment pool. The last owner finally gave up at the end of 2019 and its been vacant since. The Pizza Hut was reportedly bought for a good price by Road Hawg BBQ and minimally remodeled. The remaining Burger King lot is quite large, in addition to the frontage on RT 2 the lot wraps around the back of the Pizza Hut and has been used for parking overflow and to support parking for the seasonal white water rafting business across the street. It ideal for the volume of traffic the ATV and snowmobile rental market is generating.
The former KFC in Gorham was another investment con gone wrong. Until the ATV traffic started up it was a "100 yards from success" as east west RT 2 traffic tended to stop along the strip and KFC was 100 years off the strip. The investor's house of cards finally folded and the place sold for less than 100K after being on the market for a couple of years. A year or two later the ATV boom started up and the guy who bought it suddenly was on a main ATV thorough fare and he appears to have done well. His business may turn into "100 yards from success" again as the town is being pushed to minimize ATV traffic on RT 2 past his location and route the ATVs up RT 16 to the new parking lots and trail access north of the trestle. The town is currently trying to work out a deal at the current ATV access on RT 2 to be posted for no trailer parking which will cut ATV traffic way down on RT2. There is also the still unresolved lawsuit by people who live along RT2 to get ATV traffic banned.
The problem Gorham has had is the town zoning is oriented to pushing commercial traffic to the section of Main street from the town Commons to the traffic light on the other end of the strip. The section of RT 16 and RT2 south and east of RT2 is zoned residential to the east of the intersection. There is a lot of Sunday River traffic that turns right at this location yet the only commercial establishment is a pretty shabby Cumberland Farms with no rest rooms. The Cumberland Farms does get lot of traffic and I am surprised they have not done the makeover they have done elsewhere The Brew Pub and bicycle shop are planned for an older commercial strip building on the west side of RT 16 prior to the turn so they will get the road traffic and also ATV traffic from town. BTW, the brick over Pizza Place reopened as the Pub Room. I think they tried to upscale the menu but they opened early in Covid and it sure looks like they dont have the traffic they need. Welches finally closed but a new owner has moved in and the former Moe's Variety has a new tenant that started out in a food truck that was servicing the ATV crowd last year.
Gorham has been caught up by the decline of the north country mills. The papermill always paid a big chunk of the taxes and many of the professionals who worked in the mill in Gorham and Berlin and supporting businesses who moved into the area tended to live in Gorham Shelburne and Randolph with those who had kids preferring Gorham as the schools for the three towns are located there. The tourist businesses were welcomed but they didn't call the shots, the mills did. With the loss of mills, the biggest economic driver has shifted to tourism as the alternative is roll up the sidewalks. The tourism businesses that survived the transition and new owners are now calling the shots in town and the direction is to keep Gorham as the prime ATV and snowmobile spot no matter the the impact to the towns residents. Anyone who speaks out against the traffic are ignored and the ATV and snowmobile locals are very good at mobilizing locals to show up at town meetings to bully the selectman to do what is needed to keep the ATV and snowmobile industry happy. The bummer is that the middle income jobs with benefits from the mills and the supporting businesses are gone and have been replaced with seasonal tourism jobs with no benefits. A lot of the former mill workers homes with access to ATV trails are now being bought for cheap (gradually getting less cheap) by out of towners for weekend retreats as the young locals cant afford to buy them. This reinforces the demographic decline in the area as local kids just move out of town or enlist when graduating as there is no careers left in town. With the mills, even a kid with marginal grades could afford to buy a house and buy toys in 4 or 5 years but that is now gone.
The former KFC in Gorham was another investment con gone wrong. Until the ATV traffic started up it was a "100 yards from success" as east west RT 2 traffic tended to stop along the strip and KFC was 100 years off the strip. The investor's house of cards finally folded and the place sold for less than 100K after being on the market for a couple of years. A year or two later the ATV boom started up and the guy who bought it suddenly was on a main ATV thorough fare and he appears to have done well. His business may turn into "100 yards from success" again as the town is being pushed to minimize ATV traffic on RT 2 past his location and route the ATVs up RT 16 to the new parking lots and trail access north of the trestle. The town is currently trying to work out a deal at the current ATV access on RT 2 to be posted for no trailer parking which will cut ATV traffic way down on RT2. There is also the still unresolved lawsuit by people who live along RT2 to get ATV traffic banned.
The problem Gorham has had is the town zoning is oriented to pushing commercial traffic to the section of Main street from the town Commons to the traffic light on the other end of the strip. The section of RT 16 and RT2 south and east of RT2 is zoned residential to the east of the intersection. There is a lot of Sunday River traffic that turns right at this location yet the only commercial establishment is a pretty shabby Cumberland Farms with no rest rooms. The Cumberland Farms does get lot of traffic and I am surprised they have not done the makeover they have done elsewhere The Brew Pub and bicycle shop are planned for an older commercial strip building on the west side of RT 16 prior to the turn so they will get the road traffic and also ATV traffic from town. BTW, the brick over Pizza Place reopened as the Pub Room. I think they tried to upscale the menu but they opened early in Covid and it sure looks like they dont have the traffic they need. Welches finally closed but a new owner has moved in and the former Moe's Variety has a new tenant that started out in a food truck that was servicing the ATV crowd last year.
Gorham has been caught up by the decline of the north country mills. The papermill always paid a big chunk of the taxes and many of the professionals who worked in the mill in Gorham and Berlin and supporting businesses who moved into the area tended to live in Gorham Shelburne and Randolph with those who had kids preferring Gorham as the schools for the three towns are located there. The tourist businesses were welcomed but they didn't call the shots, the mills did. With the loss of mills, the biggest economic driver has shifted to tourism as the alternative is roll up the sidewalks. The tourism businesses that survived the transition and new owners are now calling the shots in town and the direction is to keep Gorham as the prime ATV and snowmobile spot no matter the the impact to the towns residents. Anyone who speaks out against the traffic are ignored and the ATV and snowmobile locals are very good at mobilizing locals to show up at town meetings to bully the selectman to do what is needed to keep the ATV and snowmobile industry happy. The bummer is that the middle income jobs with benefits from the mills and the supporting businesses are gone and have been replaced with seasonal tourism jobs with no benefits. A lot of the former mill workers homes with access to ATV trails are now being bought for cheap (gradually getting less cheap) by out of towners for weekend retreats as the young locals cant afford to buy them. This reinforces the demographic decline in the area as local kids just move out of town or enlist when graduating as there is no careers left in town. With the mills, even a kid with marginal grades could afford to buy a house and buy toys in 4 or 5 years but that is now gone.
Last edited:
Andrew
Active member
I was thinking about how BK had an unusually large lot for in-town and reflecting on how that back parking area seemed blended with Pizza Hut, thanks for the explanation. So it sounds like BK corporate was running the site after the 1999 last owner you mentioned or did you mean 2019?
The last time I was there I seem to remember as earlier in the winter of 2019. I was marveling at the ineptitude of the staff as I was waiting and it seemed to get progressively worse. Then I realized I was starting to feel odd myself, then detected the strong odor of vehicle exhaust in the restaurant as it appeared they could not or would not close the take-out window between cars and transactions. They may have slowly been doing themselves in.
The last time I was there I seem to remember as earlier in the winter of 2019. I was marveling at the ineptitude of the staff as I was waiting and it seemed to get progressively worse. Then I realized I was starting to feel odd myself, then detected the strong odor of vehicle exhaust in the restaurant as it appeared they could not or would not close the take-out window between cars and transactions. They may have slowly been doing themselves in.
peakbagger
In Rembrance , July 2024
You are correct I will edit the post.
The arrangement of the drive through was set up so that once you ordered you were trapped for whatever duration it took to process the order. I finally gave up on them entirely.
The arrangement of the drive through was set up so that once you ordered you were trapped for whatever duration it took to process the order. I finally gave up on them entirely.
Mike P.
Well-known member
Did BK ever compete with McDonalds? Maybe during lunch. When I was staying at Hiker's Paradise (F&$@, I'm old) back in the late 90's and early 2000's McDonalds were the only place open for a pre-6:00 breakfast.
When I was there for dinner, I wasn't looking for a burger. I'd end up at the Pizza place, not the hut, or KFC or the Chinese Food restaurant that was between Hiker's and the store where I could buy a six pack of beer. Had BK been open for breakfast at the same time, I would have gone as I generally prefer their food. Brew Pub and Inn, like the Green Granite in NC I would think would be better for an ATV crowd with lots of trailers behind trucks.
It certainly should keep F&G busy who have seen a rash or snowmobile accidents of late.
When I was there for dinner, I wasn't looking for a burger. I'd end up at the Pizza place, not the hut, or KFC or the Chinese Food restaurant that was between Hiker's and the store where I could buy a six pack of beer. Had BK been open for breakfast at the same time, I would have gone as I generally prefer their food. Brew Pub and Inn, like the Green Granite in NC I would think would be better for an ATV crowd with lots of trailers behind trucks.
It certainly should keep F&G busy who have seen a rash or snowmobile accidents of late.
peakbagger
In Rembrance , July 2024
Breakfast is still a problem in town but less so. The new restaurant at Welch's former location has breakfast and lunch and bakery. The grand jackpot winner restaurant in town for location is the relocated Eastern Depot which is now located between the new ATV parking lot and the new ATV access north of the trestle on RT 16, they do breakfast and lunch and supper on weekends. Road Hawg was advertising take out breakfasts. (they are always trying things to drive more traffic). No idea if BK ever served breakfast. In general on weekends Gorham is very busy place and reeks of two stroke engines during the winter.
Mr Pizza is actively for sale and had been pre Covid. My guess is the owner is trying to cash out while the getting is good with the ATV boom. They shut down the original dining room to the right and turned it into gift shop a couple of years ago. They still packed the place pre Covid and this summer during Covid. Its a great location but that lot and building is in an active flood plain, (paddle up service off the rear deck) so anyone buying it would have some difficulty getting financing.
Mr Pizza is actively for sale and had been pre Covid. My guess is the owner is trying to cash out while the getting is good with the ATV boom. They shut down the original dining room to the right and turned it into gift shop a couple of years ago. They still packed the place pre Covid and this summer during Covid. Its a great location but that lot and building is in an active flood plain, (paddle up service off the rear deck) so anyone buying it would have some difficulty getting financing.
Andrew
Active member
I have been reluctant to comment on the meat of this topic since the ATV issue in northern NH had caused me so much grief and anguish in the past that I just want to be away from. But I guess I'm bored.
It's about time either of these 2 campgrounds get built, because the pressure to accommodate this group for camping was overwhelming 10 years ago, and has only increased since. The state stepped up to accommodate the annual atv festival on the grounds of Jericho Mt State Park at a seriously lacking site, that took a huge amount of investment to make moderately appropriate. A huge volunteer effort of the trail clubs, chamber of commerce, and willingly donating contractors put hundreds of tons of fill into what now is the event area there. Both of the planned private campgrounds were owned by contractors involved in the event area development, and I think they burned themselves out a bit. Also this major ground disturbance used up all the development allowed in a specific time period on an Alteration of Terrain Permit issued by NH DES, so the state could not develop a new area in the park for a campground with major ground disturbance for a significant period of time per DES rule.
The state park team was given 5 weeks to build what is now the existing 5 cabin and 15 campsite campground at Jericho Mt, and we did it (a contractor was brought in to construct the cabins). Originally the site went up for bid for a private contractor to construct and operate the Jericho Mt. State Park campground, but I think it was 2012 when no one bid and we were closing in to the festival date, and the NH DRED commissioner told us we would have a campground by then, and we would build it. It was not easy and a lot of free work on the part of state employees was accomplished to meet the goal. My boss and I were hand raking acres of topsoil into early evening on the opening night, and ironically our first campers who came in after we left, drove over signs, fire rings, across recently seeded areas, and got drunk and belligerent and pissed off the next arrivals!
I worked alongside a lot of rough and tough north country dudes and always admitted to them I was one of the flower fairies or whatever they liked to call it, my boss on the other hand was born and raised in Pittsburg NH and ran in the motorized crowd. When we were developing the Jericho campground he kept warning the park planner and everyone on the construction team, "These are not your typical campers, they are a high-demand (for conveniences) group, and rowdy, so we must take that into account." This played out exactly as he predicted even as the park planner insisted on installing varying site amenity/access diversity for general public use. We eventually converted all sites to high convenience and max elbow room except for 2 lean to's.
So every annual atv fest from then on was crushing demand for campsites to the point of ridiculous availability in the face of huge demand. Every year it would play out that all the reservable sites throughout the region would usually be booked during the previous winter, but then as the festival date would close in, desperate call volume seeking campsites would overwhelm every campground office, with the general impression being that it was our fault no sites were available anywhere. The atv powers even tricked their way into allowing ride-in camping at Moose Brook State Park much to the detriment of the park and the traditional users, and it went on for too long until I was able to gather enough evidence to suggest to administrators that they were violating the law. By the way, by the time I left my regional office at Moose Brook SP the campground was not be heavily used by the atv crowd and we estimated the use by this group as 15% or less. Park staff had worked hard to turn a maybe 55% seasonal occupancy rate to over 80% over 10 years by concentrating on non-motorized traditional amenities.
So yeah Berlin has a great opportunity to finally take some advantage of this economic windfall, and many wish they finally would.
It's about time either of these 2 campgrounds get built, because the pressure to accommodate this group for camping was overwhelming 10 years ago, and has only increased since. The state stepped up to accommodate the annual atv festival on the grounds of Jericho Mt State Park at a seriously lacking site, that took a huge amount of investment to make moderately appropriate. A huge volunteer effort of the trail clubs, chamber of commerce, and willingly donating contractors put hundreds of tons of fill into what now is the event area there. Both of the planned private campgrounds were owned by contractors involved in the event area development, and I think they burned themselves out a bit. Also this major ground disturbance used up all the development allowed in a specific time period on an Alteration of Terrain Permit issued by NH DES, so the state could not develop a new area in the park for a campground with major ground disturbance for a significant period of time per DES rule.
The state park team was given 5 weeks to build what is now the existing 5 cabin and 15 campsite campground at Jericho Mt, and we did it (a contractor was brought in to construct the cabins). Originally the site went up for bid for a private contractor to construct and operate the Jericho Mt. State Park campground, but I think it was 2012 when no one bid and we were closing in to the festival date, and the NH DRED commissioner told us we would have a campground by then, and we would build it. It was not easy and a lot of free work on the part of state employees was accomplished to meet the goal. My boss and I were hand raking acres of topsoil into early evening on the opening night, and ironically our first campers who came in after we left, drove over signs, fire rings, across recently seeded areas, and got drunk and belligerent and pissed off the next arrivals!
I worked alongside a lot of rough and tough north country dudes and always admitted to them I was one of the flower fairies or whatever they liked to call it, my boss on the other hand was born and raised in Pittsburg NH and ran in the motorized crowd. When we were developing the Jericho campground he kept warning the park planner and everyone on the construction team, "These are not your typical campers, they are a high-demand (for conveniences) group, and rowdy, so we must take that into account." This played out exactly as he predicted even as the park planner insisted on installing varying site amenity/access diversity for general public use. We eventually converted all sites to high convenience and max elbow room except for 2 lean to's.
So every annual atv fest from then on was crushing demand for campsites to the point of ridiculous availability in the face of huge demand. Every year it would play out that all the reservable sites throughout the region would usually be booked during the previous winter, but then as the festival date would close in, desperate call volume seeking campsites would overwhelm every campground office, with the general impression being that it was our fault no sites were available anywhere. The atv powers even tricked their way into allowing ride-in camping at Moose Brook State Park much to the detriment of the park and the traditional users, and it went on for too long until I was able to gather enough evidence to suggest to administrators that they were violating the law. By the way, by the time I left my regional office at Moose Brook SP the campground was not be heavily used by the atv crowd and we estimated the use by this group as 15% or less. Park staff had worked hard to turn a maybe 55% seasonal occupancy rate to over 80% over 10 years by concentrating on non-motorized traditional amenities.
So yeah Berlin has a great opportunity to finally take some advantage of this economic windfall, and many wish they finally would.
peakbagger
In Rembrance , July 2024
Interesting insight on the background. The alteration of terrain angle is interesting. I was not aware that that was preventing additional development. One source had told me it was just that the state didn't have the funds to develop the campground. Generally the state doesn't not need to follow their own regulations so these must be federal? At one point i had talked to am employee of Horizons Engineering that observed that it was lot easier to put on paper than to actually develop the park. Folks forget that prior to the ATV park, the city park that was located there was basically abandoned. The city of Berlin was entertaining offers to lease it to a private developer (a local entrepreneur), he came back with a proposal that gave him the right to develop it with no benefit to the city.
I also heard that there was a lot of pressure on state agencies to do whatever they could to make ATV events successful, its not the first time that rules have been bent or outright broken. I have been surprised that Moose Brook hasnt been connected to the ATV network permanently as there has been a lot of pressure. Now I know why it was stopped. I hope the ATV "bullies" in town didn't drive you out.
Berlin has been spending money on economic consultants to try to get more ATV development into the city in particular a motel. Like several studies before, the most recent conclusion is the same as before, the potential seasonal business is inadequate to support a private developer to make the investment. The city is planning to take over a short length of RT110 to allow ATV traffic to Jericho Road.
The two area campgrounds, like many in the whites, long ago converted to primarily seasonal campers. They stuff as many as they can into the campground and take the less desirable sites on the fringes and use them for transient guests. Both have the fundamental issue that they are directly on the SLR main line railroad track so its not a particularly wilderness experience. The big question is now that Dolly Copp campground has spent a lot of money on a two year upgrade, will the fed allow the winter time snowmachine trail from Gorham to be converted to an ATV route to get ATV traffic to the campground? There were reportedly discussions by the auto road at one point to try to route ATV traffic from Gorham to the Great Glen/Autoroad lands but I expect the FS realizes that this would be highly controversial. Then again the town of Gorham gradually seems to ignore ATV traffic on the closed section of the Berlin Gorham road so no doubt its a matter of time when they start traveling on Rt 16 south
In general Moose Brook is a far more traditional family campground that would only exist on state lands where there is less profit motive. I do like how its been aligned with the growing mountain bike network that I expect will eventually expand into the expanded Gorham Town Forest and the Randolph Community Forest. I think the big issue is mountain bikers are like hikers, they do not self fund their hobby since there are not required reservations so there is less interest on state departments to support it.
I also heard that there was a lot of pressure on state agencies to do whatever they could to make ATV events successful, its not the first time that rules have been bent or outright broken. I have been surprised that Moose Brook hasnt been connected to the ATV network permanently as there has been a lot of pressure. Now I know why it was stopped. I hope the ATV "bullies" in town didn't drive you out.
Berlin has been spending money on economic consultants to try to get more ATV development into the city in particular a motel. Like several studies before, the most recent conclusion is the same as before, the potential seasonal business is inadequate to support a private developer to make the investment. The city is planning to take over a short length of RT110 to allow ATV traffic to Jericho Road.
The two area campgrounds, like many in the whites, long ago converted to primarily seasonal campers. They stuff as many as they can into the campground and take the less desirable sites on the fringes and use them for transient guests. Both have the fundamental issue that they are directly on the SLR main line railroad track so its not a particularly wilderness experience. The big question is now that Dolly Copp campground has spent a lot of money on a two year upgrade, will the fed allow the winter time snowmachine trail from Gorham to be converted to an ATV route to get ATV traffic to the campground? There were reportedly discussions by the auto road at one point to try to route ATV traffic from Gorham to the Great Glen/Autoroad lands but I expect the FS realizes that this would be highly controversial. Then again the town of Gorham gradually seems to ignore ATV traffic on the closed section of the Berlin Gorham road so no doubt its a matter of time when they start traveling on Rt 16 south
In general Moose Brook is a far more traditional family campground that would only exist on state lands where there is less profit motive. I do like how its been aligned with the growing mountain bike network that I expect will eventually expand into the expanded Gorham Town Forest and the Randolph Community Forest. I think the big issue is mountain bikers are like hikers, they do not self fund their hobby since there are not required reservations so there is less interest on state departments to support it.Andrew
Active member
Peakbagger the alteration permit was only one of the big hurdles that presented at one point but the funding factor is also correct. For the initial development and a few years beyond the campground opening in 2012 to get things stabilized, we could spend away there, which was kinda nice because we were climbing out of the recession and could spend liberally locally. Then the parks Director really had concern about return of investment on every move we made thereafter. Another factor was we were also limited to 20 campsites by NHDES by our occupancy permit as a public campground, with the limiting factor being the septic waste capacity determined for the site. There was a lot of negotiation at one point between the city, chamber, clubs, and park and we met with Horizon's to try to play big sandbox looking at the property to accommodate a large development plan to serve all the aforementioned goals. That was when the AOT permit question came up, and that halted that collaboration. I'm pretty sure it was a state DES rule but maybe it was a fed rule enforced through DES. The state did keep getting in trouble due to some details in some of the federal grant funding utilized. The AOT was on a time limit that I seem to remember as 7 years; the rule was something like you cannot disturb more than x cu.ft. in a 7 year period, but I don't remember exactly. So this may no longer be one of the limiting factors.
I really do hope that the Gateway campground works out as an event site as they should move the bulk of the activities there. I staffed many of the festivals and the camp razor thing often doing traffic control. I would stand in clouds of dust with all sorts of mayhem speeding around me and think "shouldn't this be at Yasgur's Farm or someplace like that and not a state park?" I was on the team to develop the special use permits for the events and it was hard for them to work with the state, nobody's fault but the process is detailed and complicated with many rules detail to consider. They would be better off without the state constraints,
I heard some other professionals dealing with the atv development in the area describe many involved as the atv mafia. I had to chuckle as yes I was professionally threatened by some notable people when I held the line for certain properties to remain non motorized. Interestingly one of them a lawman who I also wrestled with on another issue eventually thanked me and we became friends, and he can peacefully walk his dog with his kids in the woods. Another lawman who threatened me is now a working colleague of someone I am close to and just stopped by to say hi the other day. Yes it made it much easier to decide to leave Gorham when we realized it was about to become NH's premier atv town, even though we had hoped to settle roots there for many years prior to doing so, but not the only factor. I remain concerned that the area put too many of it's eggs in one basket again at the sacrifice of others, without proper planning and community buy-in, I hope it all works out eventually
I really do hope that the Gateway campground works out as an event site as they should move the bulk of the activities there. I staffed many of the festivals and the camp razor thing often doing traffic control. I would stand in clouds of dust with all sorts of mayhem speeding around me and think "shouldn't this be at Yasgur's Farm or someplace like that and not a state park?" I was on the team to develop the special use permits for the events and it was hard for them to work with the state, nobody's fault but the process is detailed and complicated with many rules detail to consider. They would be better off without the state constraints,
I heard some other professionals dealing with the atv development in the area describe many involved as the atv mafia. I had to chuckle as yes I was professionally threatened by some notable people when I held the line for certain properties to remain non motorized. Interestingly one of them a lawman who I also wrestled with on another issue eventually thanked me and we became friends, and he can peacefully walk his dog with his kids in the woods. Another lawman who threatened me is now a working colleague of someone I am close to and just stopped by to say hi the other day. Yes it made it much easier to decide to leave Gorham when we realized it was about to become NH's premier atv town, even though we had hoped to settle roots there for many years prior to doing so, but not the only factor. I remain concerned that the area put too many of it's eggs in one basket again at the sacrifice of others, without proper planning and community buy-in, I hope it all works out eventually
peakbagger
In Rembrance , July 2024
My 83 acres in Randolph keep looking better and better
Similar threads
