NJ bear on AT dragged camper from tent

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Chip said:
one of the non-lethal benefits to hunting is that it re-trains animals to avoid human contact. a big part of the bear and coyote "problem" is that they've lost all fear of us, and with all the poor food handling, have actually learned we may represent an easy meal.
Not sure I would call hunting non-lethal...

Hunting has two effects:
1) It kills those animals which do not avoid human contact, thus altering the gene pool.
2) It teaches some of those that it does not kill to fear humans (behavior modification).

I have read that European bears have become very human-adverse after many generations of effect 1).

Doug
 
WCVB Channel 5 in Boston showed the bear "attack" video on Good Morning America today. Keep a look out tonight, maybe it will be on again.
For one thing, I was shocked that one person stood there and caught the bear on video and didn't do anything. As soon as the person in the sleeping bag starting moving around, the bear got scared off. One of the people witnessing the bear approach the camper should have yelled out or banged some pots together or something.
I lived in North West Jersey for 20 years. We didn't hear about bears until about 10 years ago. This past autumn I was at my cousins house in Bloomingdale for a BBQ and a bear ran through the backyard, in the middle of the day.
 
Great thread..

Couple of thoughts...
I was thinking the same thing when I saw the photo, hoping that the person taking it wasn't the only other person around and that others were working on spooking the bear, glad that was the case!

On bears, I watched a great documentary regarding bear attacks and the researchers concluded that black bears were less predictable than grizzlies, and that attack:fatality ratios were stacked higher for black bears, this isn't total fatalities, but ratio of attacks that proved fatal...another way to think of it was that they attacked less but more often those attacks were fatal. Driving the attacks was less often protection of cubs and more often the need for a big meal; eg, low body weight late in the season.

There was one attack in particular that took place up in Canada I think around New Brunswick (not sure, if anyone knows this please correct me) where a couple took a canoe out to an island and they put two bags of groceries on a picnic table in thier camp, which was right on the shore. They were both killed that night by a black bear. Two days later they were reported missing and rangers went out to thier camp site. From off shore in thier boat, they oberved the bear feeding on them...the kicker is that the bear never touched the bags of groceries.

On desensitization; YUP. This is a big problem, especially in areas of sprawl. Predators see people, people do nothing, predators conclude people are harmless. I have an airblaster and have used it when I've seen coyotes in my back meadow. The coyotes cruise the wooded perimeter, but will rarely step foot in the meadow and run like hell when they see me and the dogs. I've been here now four years, and I rarely see them since I blasted them.

Anohter "Unadogger's Picks" book plug:
"The Beast in the Garden" by David Baron. My friends who live in Nederland Colorado turned me onto this book when I was staying in their cabin (consider it the worst campfire scary story anyone could ever tell you, right before you went to bed). They happen to live right along established cougar routes. One cougar in their neighborhood got so habituated that he developed a taste for dogs and proceeded to eat five pets. He was ultimately shot. But this is a great book about urban predators, the struggle between open space and sprawl, and even where greenies can go wrong in the game of wildlife management.
 
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una_dogger said:
On bears, I watched a great documentary regarding bear attacks and the researchers concluded that black bears were less predictable than grizzlies, and that attack:fatality ratios were stacked higher for black bears, this isn't total fatalities, but ratio of attacks that proved fatal...another way to think of it was that they attacked less but more often those attacks were fatal. Driving the attacks was less often protection of cubs and more often the need for a big meal; eg, low body weight late in the season.
Grizzly attacks are frequently territorial, black bear attacks (except for moma protecting cubs), although relatively rare, are frequently predatory. This could result in the above stats.

Grizzlies tend to spend a lot of time above T-line (no place to hide) and black bears tend to live in the trees where there is plenty of cover to hide/escape in.

Anohter "Unadogger's Picks" book plug:
And a counter-book plug: "Bear Attacks: their causes and avoidance", by Stephen Herrero. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...r=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_ur_2_1/103-1774039-7303861
A worthwhile read.

Doug
 
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ExploreTheEast said:
I've been watching this thread develop over the past couple days, and all I can say is-- I'm glad my g/f doesn't visit vftt! She'd never come backpacking again if she read this!

Why is it that some things, no matter how improbable, really scare us. Why do people get scared of bears, when the probability of something happening is extremely rare. Why do we accept thousands of deathes in automobile accidents, but a single killing by a bear, mountain lion, aligator, etc scares us?

Is it that we are so used to people getting killed other ways, that it doesn't bother us?
 
Pete_Hickey said:
An excellent book, but don't make the mistake of taking it for night reading while on a solo backpack trip. Especially when reading the parts of the sound of the bear teeth grating against the skull.
I read it just before visiting the Canadian Rockies...

In fact, I read it because I was about to visit the Canadian Rockies.

Is it that we are so used to people getting killed other ways, that it doesn't bother us?
Habituation.

I read somewhere that a driver has a probability of .5 of being involved in a serious accident in his driving lifetime. I suspect that most of us have a significantly lower probability of being injured by a bear.

Doug
 
DougPaul said:
And a counter-book plug: "Bear Attacks: their causes and avoidance", by Stephen Herrero. http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/A...r=2-1/ref=pd_bbs_b_ur_2_1/103-1774039-7303861
A worthwhile read.


Doug
Should be required reading for anybody entering bear country. Did you notice that Herrero interviews most of his subjects from their hospital beds? Pretty gruesome stuff in there. I re-read it and made my son read it prior to our Cdn. Rockies trip last year. I especially winced where the warden describes feeling the grizz's teeth biting deeper into his calf with every bullet that his colleague pumped into it.
I wonder what the ADK high peaks would be like if grizzlies roamed freely there.
 
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Dread of becoming lunch...

To generalize, I believe we've definately got a cultural heritage of extirpation in the US, whether it be animal or indigenous humans. Add to that all the old cowboy movies depicting the lone horseman getting pounced on by a mountain lion, etc, that just keeps reinforcing our own fears.

I'd like to think that if I encounter a wild animal in the woods, its going to be a blessing; and I'll probably have to be satisfied with a fleeting glimpse. In fact, that to me would be the natural state of things. A wild animal that is truly wild who has maybe never seen a human so close before and runs. But the fact is that around here, our wildlife is habituated to our prescence. That totally changes the dynamic. Thanks for the book link, Doug, I'll be picking that one up; but not before I leave for two weeks of backpacking next weekend!

Sabrina
 
una_dogger said:
To generalize, I believe we've definately got a cultural heritage of extirpation in the US, whether it be animal or indigenous humans. Add to that all the old cowboy movies depicting the lone horseman getting pounced on by a mountain lion, etc, that just keeps reinforcing our own fears.
Makes a saleable plot line--man vs. vicious wild animal.

If one looks at the record, one could make the case that humans are the most vicious wild animals...

I'd like to think that if I encounter a wild animal in the woods, its going to be a blessing; and I'll probably have to be satisfied with a fleeting glimpse. In fact, that to me would be the natural state of things. A wild animal that is truly wild who has maybe never seen a human so close before and runs. But the fact is that around here, our wildlife is habituated to our prescence. That totally changes the dynamic. Thanks for the book link, Doug, I'll be picking that one up; but not before I leave for two weeks of backpacking next weekend!
A number of wild animals have no fear of humans. Antarctic penguins, for instance. (They have no natural land preditors, so they haven't developed any fear of land animals.)

Unless you act foolishly, the drive to and from the trail is more dangerous than the hike.

Enjoy your hike.

Doug
 
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thanks, the link works. I was out all day in "bear country" and didn't see anything but deer, flies and salamanders. A Great Blue Heron startled me at one point, they have a nasty call.
 
First eye view

I have some thruhikers staying here with me and they spent the afternoon with the biologist and even got to pet and hold the bear while she was tranquilized.
She was about five years old and had given birth to cubs in previous years, although they were no longer with her. She was underweight, and had lots of dreads that indicated to the biologist that she was staying in the shrubbrush mostly.
There were other hikers harrassed and followed by her this year. One thruhiker they spoke with dropped his pack and let her have it and kept walking. She sniffed the pack and then kept following him from behind.

This girl probably did need to be culled. They realized that after spending time with the biologist. But they said when they were hiking away they heard one gunshot and it was an eerie moment.

Sabrina
 
Chip said:
one of the non-lethal benefits to hunting is that it re-trains animals to avoid human contact. a big part of the bear and coyote "problem" is that they've lost all fear of us, and with all the poor food handling, have actually learned we may represent an easy meal. Proper food handling, a hunting season and maybe hikers armed with those aerosol blast horns would go a long way in training the animals to head the other way.
Re. animal populations vs development; "Extirpated" is a term often used to describe bear, deer and moose populations in the Northeast during the late 18 and early 1900's. So if there are "any" here now, the populations have increased. Most state biologists agree these populations are now increasing dramatically, even just year over year.

If killing cannot be stomached by some and tolerating them is no longer an option. Why do we not learn from a successful program that has been in place for a few years now out west?

Bear Shepparding
 
The rocket scientist with that video camera would get a serious butt whoopin if It were me in that sleeping bag.Anyone who grabs a camera instead of attemting to deter a bear sniffing around someone sleeping should be locked up .

Soapbox issues aside , It has been very dry in north Jersey this year so be aware of bears foraging and seeking water in areas where you normally wouldnt see them.
 
From what I've heard, the person video taping the bear encounter may be charged with some selfish crime--I hope so.

After observing the film, it seemed obvious that when the person in the sleeping back awoke and moved, the bear got spooked and ran off. For that it was killed??? What a shame...If the person in the sleeping bag had food next to him, I think he should be fined. First of course, a penalty/fine must get on the books, be posted, then enforced.

I've shot at least 5 bears in my lifetime......with my camera!!

....Jade
 
Isn't it amazing what media hype will do? A bear sniffing a camper becomes an "attack". Then once again the horror stories and cliches about grizzlies in Alaska get trotted out and displayed yet again, yawn....... as if the 2 species have much in common aside from the misinformation spread about them both.

The media machine will do anything to get our attention and keep us in fear. No story? Hey, make one up! Exaggeration and hyperbole are all part of the game....... after all - FEAR SELLS!
 
This particular bear

Had been harrassing hikers and getting this close was the final straw for her. Its very unfortunate but what would people be saying if the next time the person was seriously injured?
 
Maybe I'm missing something on the video? The person was bitten twice. A backpack was taken by the bear. I have not seen/heard anything about the person having food/odors on him or his bag, just assumptions (anyone have a link to this?).

IMH and unfortunate O the bear needed to be culled. It would have become more of a "problem" down the road.

Mistakes that I saw were the video taping and the failure of the ranger to report to Wildlife (1 week after the event). The three who who nearest the bear, sleeping bags, did not panic and seemed to remain calm.

peace.
 
If I fell and became disabled due to trauma on a trail, I would not expect the trail to be closed. If, due to tragic circumstances, a person drown in a brook in the mountains, I would not expect access to the brook be blocked. I assume the boy Scouts will continue to have Jamborees and noone will be shot for their inability to keep everyone safe......

I do not support the killing of animals who are in their natural habitat or responding to the lack of judgement on the part of humans. I realize my opinion is in the minority but I feel strongly about it.....Also I welcome folks to send me a PM if this thread begins leaning toward controversy....

Respectfully....Jade
 
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