No Cats in New York..........

[mavs00]

Just saw this article in my local paper, figured I pass it along. Seems like more of a local "college level" independant reserch study, than a fully funded DEC study.

Interesting none the less, as its an oft "brough up" topic here.

Here is the online article: -ROCHESTER DEMOCRAT & CHRONICLE-

 

[adamiata]

I thought it was interesting that the article said the only verified cougar population in the East was in Florida. Does Florida have wilderness areas larger and more remote than the Northeast where the cats can hide, or have they grown more accustomed to being near people, like bears?

I guess I never really thought of Florida as having much more than vast swamps, amusements parks, and golf courses, and I never really imagined cougars as something that would live in wetlands.

 

[David Metsky]

I thought it was interesting that the article said the only verified cougar population in the East was in Florida. Does Florida have wilderness areas larger and more remote than the Northeast where the cats can hide, or have they grown more accustomed to being near people, like bears?

I guess I never really thought of Florida as having much more than vast swamps, amusements parks, and golf courses, and I never really imagined cougars as something that would live in wetlands.

The Florida Panther is a sub-species that is almost extinct (less than 50 left), but still hanging on. There's lots of wild terrain in FL, but it's getting smaller and smaller over time.

http://www.panther.state.fl.us/
http://www.npca.org/wildlife_protection/wildlife_facts/florida_panther.asp

-dave-

 

[mavs00]

I thought it was interesting that the article said the only verified cougar population in the East was in Florida...........

Which also may indicate that the article itself may be bunk..... It's now generally accepted that there is also a small breeding population in northern Quebec. This article from -EASTERN COUGAR NET- documents the DNA verified presence. Also the Delaware DFW has concluded that they have "at least two, and possibly more, free-roaming cougars in the State" as well. ( HERE ). Of course, could be just captive release isolates, but the presence of multiple animals pulls you in the other direction

There have been other Class I (proven) and Class II (unproven, but highly probably) examples throughout the northeast. The passage does refer the one Class II sighting from NY

Scientists have estimated that a single mountain lion kills between 44 and 100 deer per year and leaves more than 11 million individual paw prints. Yet no track has ever been verified in New York, and only one deer carcass in recent years has even prompted debate as to whether a mountain lion could have been responsible, Orkin said.

This passage makes reference to -THIS- 1993 internal DEC memo of a cougar kill site found in the Oak hill area just east of Keene, NY (in the High Peaks). It's only one of two "confirmed" cougar sighting in the Northeast in the last 100 years.

So that part of the article show suspect reporting. Plus, I get the sense that "research" was a low level academia driven project as opposed to any "official" sponsored program. I just put it up as an FYI.

 

[HAYDK]

FWIW
My local paper , this Sunday 11-06-05. http://www.pressrepublican.com/Archive/2005/11_2005/11052005out2.htm

 

[WCTDave]

Is anyone else getting slightly annoyed by all these cougar threads lately? I feel that until we get a picture of a cougar (dead or otherwise) in NY/VT/NH area, we really have nothing more to talk about. And even then we probably don't have much because it's pretty much understood that if there are cougars in the NE the population of them isn't sustainable. It would be akin to buying a bag of iguanas and releasing them in Alaska.

*edit* and Northern Quebec is a far cry from NE United States

 

[funkyfreddy]

Is anyone else getting slightly annoyed by all these cougar threads lately?

You don't HAVE to read them, do you? If you don't like these threads then you shouldn't read them...... time is precious, why waste it on subjects that displease you? I don't read every thread that's posted on VFTT, lost interest in the NH 48 stuff a long time ago. That doesn't mean I should complain about it though, since obviously a lot of folks here are interested in them and will continue to seek info about them.

It is also obvious that a lot of us here are interested in whether or not the mountain lion is coming back to the NE. These cougar threads appear and reappear on VFTT from time to time, especially when sightings occur. Personally I enjoy reading them more than I do most of the peakbagging list type stuff, to each their own......

Just to keep my post on the subject of cougars, and to add something to the discussion - when I was visiting New Brunswick, Canada a few years ago I was told by a very credible person that there was a small population of them near Mt. Carleton Provincial Park. I was also told by a forest ranger in the Gaspe region that some are known to live in the Chic Choc mountains. If this is the case then some must slip over the borders from time to time, given the ranges of adult male cougars.

Whether this means there is a breeding population in NY or New England is an entirely different question and one I'm unqualified to answer.

 

[thuja]

Is anyone else getting slightly annoyed by all these cougar threads lately? I feel that until we get a picture of a cougar (dead or otherwise) in NY/VT/NH area, we really have nothing more to talk about. And even then we probably don't have much because it's pretty much understood that if there are cougars in the NE the population of them isn't sustainable. It would be akin to buying a bag of iguanas and releasing them in Alaska.

*edit* and Northern Quebec is a far cry from NE United States

Actually, there was physical evidence from the Gaspé, which I would hardly call "northern quebec". And see the link earlier in this thread to the border patrol security cam pictures on the Vt-quebec border.
So I guess we *do* have something more to talk about.

 

[post'r boy]

It would be akin to buying a bag of iguanas and releasing them in Alaska.

too funny!!!
i know of one cat in new york for sure!! a cool cat..... the guy who started this thread!!!! mavs00 is

 

[WCTDave]

I'll admit I can't look away...I wish the rumours were true. But that doesn't change anything.

 

[mavs00]

I'll admit I can't look away...

Is anyone else getting slightly annoyed by all these cougar threads lately?

I understand this does happen, there are particular topics and even particular posters that "annoy me" as well, and like you, I too feel compelled to peek in at them also. However, since I know that I willingly went in there and put myself in the position "to be annoyed", I try not to make disparaging remarks that the threadstarter may take offense to. After all, in many cases (including this one), they do not start the thread with the explicit intent to ANNOY (even slightly) anyone.

Once again, As I stated in the initial post, this was presented as an FYI only, specifically for those that are interested in the subject (and would thus enter a topic entitled "No cats in NY..........")

Please take the information for what its worth.

 

[WCTDave]

Yeah, you're right...I'll try and keep future remarks to myself.

 

[brushhog]

Cats in the Daks

About 5 years ago , afriend of mine that has a sheep farm near Corinth NY , had numerours sheep not lambs, brutally attacked and killed at nite on three consecutive nites. the animals were found ouside of the fence boundering their field, woods all around. They contacted a DEC cop who at first was puzzled by the amount of carnage to these animals. About two days later a dead panther/Catamount was found on the side of the highway in the vicinity of their farm.

 

[Rik]

About 5 years ago , afriend of mine that has a sheep farm near Corinth NY , had numerours sheep not lambs, brutally attacked and killed at nite on three consecutive nites. the animals were found ouside of the fence boundering their field, woods all around. They contacted a DEC cop who at first was puzzled by the amount of carnage to these animals. About two days later a dead panther/Catamount was found on the side of the highway in the vicinity of their farm.

Right in my back yard!

 

[mavs00]

About 5 years ago , afriend of mine that has a sheep farm near Corinth NY , had numerours sheep not lambs, brutally attacked and killed at nite on three consecutive nites. the animals were found ouside of the fence boundering their field, woods all around. They contacted a DEC cop who at first was puzzled by the amount of carnage to these animals. About two days later a dead panther/Catamount was found on the side of the highway in the vicinity of their farm.

I'm really surprised that the that isn't more widely known. Not to say that I doubt your story, but the presence of a dead animal (cougar) would constitute "the most evidence" yet of their existence not only in NY, BUT the entire east (outside FL). To my knowledge, a dead animal has never been found, which is one of the reasons that DEC folks continue to believe that they do not.

Since populations are fairly isolated, there are distinct genetic variations from population to population. I think (not sure where I read it) that it was determined that the Quebec population differ markedly from populations out west (and in FL). Enough anyway, that they are able to determine that they are not "captive releases" of western populations. If one was found here, DNA studies could trace a genetic line to populations. It should be able to differentiate between true captive releases (from western population) or wild migrating populations from the north.

I've also heard that several Servals (a strictly African feline predator) have also been found in the daks, so there definitely have been SOME releases of exotic captives in the past. Obviously If a cougar was released/escaped from a "exotic cat facility" (there are a few in the daks) or a private collector, it could most certainly survive more easily than say other exotic from a more tropical locale. Thrive even.

 

[brushhog]

Cats in the Daks

NYDEC has historically kept information pertaining to incidents such as this very low key and hush-hush. i think they do this for a number of reasons. There are those of us who are not shocked by sightings of " rare sightings of non-indigenous species" i.e the Cats, at one time (30 yrs ago ) the Lynx. They eventually imported and released them here without too much success. I still think that there are people who fear this kind of stuff and might react adversely, towards these animals. None the less, i would have to ask my friend what the reaction by DEC, was when this dead cat had been hit. If I remember right , there were sightings and like descriptions prior to her unfortunate incident, and also after the incident . All of them taking place in the area bordered by NY Rt. 9N , Spier Falls Road, and Angel Rd. Thanks for listening

 

[stu]

I find reading threads about the existence of big cats in the North East intriguing. There was a web site devoted to this subject a while back. It was called something along the lines of "New England Mountain Lion Discussion Board". I am also fascinated by the the thought of wolves returning to the North East.

 

[Rik]

If I remember right , there were sightings and like descriptions prior to her unfortunate incident, and also after the incident . All of them taking place in the area bordered by NY Rt. 9N , Spier Falls Road, and Angel Rd. Thanks for listening

Wow, these are the roads I run on!

And no I don't have a long tail!

 

[lumberzac]

About 5 years ago , afriend of mine that has a sheep farm near Corinth NY , had numerours sheep not lambs, brutally attacked and killed at nite on three consecutive nites. the animals were found ouside of the fence boundering their field, woods all around. They contacted a DEC cop who at first was puzzled by the amount of carnage to these animals. About two days later a dead panther/Catamount was found on the side of the highway in the vicinity of their farm.

Right in my back yard!

In mine as well. This is the first I've heard about it.

 

[brushhog]

Cats in the Daks

General Bailey Homestead Farm