not without peril

[RGF1]

It would be scary to think that he might be leading others again...

Say it Aint So Double Bow. I sincerly hoope it is not him if it is maybe there is a way to let people know of his hsitory. I am Affliated with two guiding associations . I could contact them

 

[sierra]

bells

rfg1,
Sorry folks dont mean to hyjack this thread. RFG1 did you hear that a man died in the Bell cord couloir on Monday? He was 49 and was climbing with his son, who survived the fall. Seems they topped out and where heading for North Marron when the weather socked in, they attempted to descend a nearby chute, but fell, the chute fed into the bell cord. The son realized his father was dead, descended on his own, spent the night alone in the woods then the next morning went for help.
details in Summitt news. Sierra

 

[woodstrider]

Not without Peril

I hate to do any monday morning quarterbacking when it comes to someone elses judgement. If I am not there then I don't know the full story- and even if I am there....You know what the cops say- if you interview 3 people at an accident scene you'll get 4 different stories.

Anyway, there is something to learn from these tragic events and that is why I read these kind of books in the first place.

 

[kerry13]

When it comes to fatalities, unfortunately it does require a certain degree of monday morning quarter backing. I have read the book several times, more as a reminder to myself of what could happen. As noted often in other posts, I see people on the trail that are just so unprepared, I am actually surprised it does not happen more often. One thing I did find encouraging about the book is the tenacity with which some fought to live, to keep on going, despite their predicament. I can't imagine enduring what they did. On the other hand I was terribly upset after reading the Weigarten story. Cheryl's parents just wanted someone to blame for their daughter's very stupid act. I can't imagine what would have happened to hiking and wilderness areas had they won their case. Nick did a wonderful job with the book. There is a lot to be learned from it. Congrats to Nick.

 

[RGF1]

rfg1,
Sorry folks dont mean to hyjack this thread. RFG1 did you hear that a man died in the Bell cord couloir on Monday? He was 49 and was climbing with his son, who survived the fall. Seems they topped out and where heading for North Marron when the weather socked in, they attempted to descend a nearby chute, but fell, the chute fed into the bell cord. The son realized his father was dead, descended on his own, spent the night alone in the woods then the next morning went for help.
details in Summitt news. Sierra

Yes I did hear about that incident from some on involved with Aspen Mountain Rescue, From What I Understand they were in upper part of the Couloir to late in the day. When you climb Bell Cord you want ot top out by 9 AM at the latest as the sun really softens the Snow in there. Your crampons will often ball up with snow and obviously you loose and grip they provide. Normally the section they were in on Bell Cord is down climbed often facing into the mountain and using both axes It is fairly steep at around 50 degrees and very narrow in places it is about 15 feet or less wide. You are past the upper 600 ft the grade lessens to about 45 Degrees and the cuolior widens sometimes one can sit on there butt and slide down using a axe to brake with . If the conditions are right. it can be a fast and fun way to get down to Crater lake and the easy trail out . Normally climbers do not rope up on the route. and it is usually climbed with both a mountaineering axe and a smaller "tool" Bell cord has rock fall year round and it can be very frightening . The chute they chose to descend from the very exposed Narrow 5th class ridge is not something I would choose to go up or down. In talking with my friend in Aspen .We thought it might have been safer to just go right over North Maroon and down the NE ridge route as they were really not all that far from the summit and the NE ride route while tough and has some mild exposure can be quickly descended though it will kill your knees . I am also kind of confused as to how the lost the route in the clouds as it is very straight forward and the ridge is very narrow and the route follows it almost dead center as you really do not have much of a option but to go along the center of the ridge. I have seen people think they can avoid a small 5th class pitch only to find them selves faced with a cliff or drop of the if you fall you will die sort. . In Some ways I am reminded of the Macdonald Barr story in the book.

Every death in the mountains is sad. I cannot imagine how Jordan White feels and what he is going through .
here is a bit about it and some photos.
Bell Cord is one of my favorite climbs in what is one of the most beautiful mountain valleys in North America. just hiking in there is amazing. If you are in the area the hike up to Buckskin Pass is worth it and not at all that tough Here is a photo Looking Dwon Bell Cord from the 13,000 ft saddle http://www.summitpost.org/mountains...29&type=mountain&mountain_id=329&route_id=150
here is a photo of the route http://www.summitpost.org/mountains...4/mountain_id/329/object_id/329/type/mountain
It is very exposed and not "secure meaning that a missptep can be extreamly dangeruos if not fatal . I have done the traverse in both directions S-N , N- S I recomend going S- N as it is much easier to climb the many 5th class pitches going up rater than dopwn and the route is easier to follow. I have hepled two very scared people on two seperate climbs get off the ridge and down. It is not a place for the unexperinced of any one with a fear of exp[osure. . My best example is the narrow ridge i makes the Knife Edge on Katahdin look like a interstate. imagine te knife edge bu with 1,000 ft shre drops and, 30 = ft near vertical 5th class pitches on very loose rock and a ridge that in places is only 5 - 10 ft wide .

Here is some info about the incident
http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20050601/NEWS/106010016&SearchID=7321058072575
http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20050601/NEWS/106010016&SearchID=7321058072575
http://www.aspentimes.com/article/20050602/NEWS/106020026&SearchID=7321058072575

 

[VFTTop'r]

I don't remember exactly which story but it was the one about two guys who go up to I think to Jefferson in winter and the planner of the hike, known to be somewhat arrogant, leaves his partner to go on to Washington. The guy left behind dies and at the end of the account when asked what he would have done different the lead guy replies with something like "I would have brought warmer mitts." It's been awhile since I read the story but it stands out in my mind. He should get the dumbest-jack-ass-of-the-mountain award.

 

[sapblatt]

I don't remember exactly which story but it was the one about two guys who go up to I think to Jefferson in winter and the planner of the hike, known to be somewhat arrogant, leaves his partner to go on to Washington. The guy left behind dies and at the end of the account when asked what he would have done different the lead guy replies with something like "I would have brought warmer mitts." It's been awhile since I read the story but it stands out in my mind. He should get the dumbest-jack-ass-of-the-mountain award.

Jeremy Haas and Derek Tinkham. I do not remember who abandoned and who died. It was one of the more disturbing chapters in the book.

 

[TEO]

It was Hass who lead his partner Derek to his death. Here he is: http://www.rockandriver.com/guideinfo.html?guide=jeremy

I've skied with him (I did not realize who he was until later) and he's a pleasant enough fellow to be around. He very well may have changed as a friend of his claims. On the other hand, I know that a two or three years ago he drove recklessly in a snowstorm despite being asked to take it easy by the afore mentioned friend. He ended up losing control and totaling someone's vehicle, so maybe he hasn't changed that much. It would, however, be extremely inappropriate for someone on this list to contact any of his employers to badmouth him.

I also happen to know the AMC hutperson who had to leave MacDonald Barr to die. It made the read all the more powerful. Not something I would ever want to experience.

 

[Seeker]

I think it's pretty darn likely that his employers already know who he is.

I love "Not Without Peril." I think it is well-written and very interesting, and think at times it is entirely appropriate to armchair quarterback. Sure we've all at one time or another done something in Al's list, that's what makes hiking inherently more dangerous than, say, sitting at your computer. But it's when someone is doing several things on that list and then continue to push for the summit that I think it is fair to judge.

The trick is to judge the actions, not the person.

 

[Mike P.]

I did one of these yesterday!

Okay the cotton shirt on a nice day was not bad & I packed a short & long sleeve poly shirt + raincoat

I'm not sure I've even been accused of packing too lightly but Tramper AL is right, usually it takes a combination of many things. All of Al's other things I've done.

I think some of the more recent events (last 7-8 years) may be worse as people have more information available. The guy who was up on Southern Presidentials without map & compass in winter. He told SAR who rescued him out of Dry River area he did not bring them since he did not know how to use them. In winter you at least should be able to figure out where you are within a mile or so & how to back track. Above treeline knowing where escape routes are is an important thing to know.

 

[king tut]

I went to pinkham notch tuesday morning to get a ticket to camp at hermit lake and saw that the author was having a talk that night. Did anyone go, or has anyone heard him talk? I was bummed i missed it, but after a long day of hiking, i didn't have the energy to hike down and up from the lake at a late hour.

 

[SteveHiker]

I learned to never go onto Mt Washington without my umbrella.

It is amazing that guy lived to tell about it.

 

[BrentD22]

Tinker/Haas

Tinker/Hass made me angry. After reading it I thought about winters I've been above tree line in that area. It's no joke. An experianced hiker should have known better. I also couldn't figure out why he didn't help him get into both sleeping bags. I did assume his friend probably climbed out of the sleeping bag he was in.

 

[Sugarloafer]

It was Hass who lead his partner Derek to his death. Here he is: http://www.rockandriver.com/guideinfo.html?guide=jeremy

I've skied with him (I did not realize who he was until later) and he's a pleasant enough fellow to be around. He very well may have changed as a friend of his claims. On the other hand, I know that a two or three years ago he drove recklessly in a snowstorm despite being asked to take it easy by the afore mentioned friend. He ended up losing control and totaling someone's vehicle, so maybe he hasn't changed that much. It would, however, be extremely inappropriate for someone on this list to contact any of his employers to badmouth him.

I also happen to know the AMC hutperson who had to leave MacDonald Barr to die. It made the read all the more powerful. Not something I would ever want to experience.

Wow.....its kind of weird that he was able to find employment as a guide. I would have thought that the "guiding" community was pretty tight-knit and the tradgedy got quite a bit of publicity at the time. Makes you wonder whether there's more to the story.

 

[RGF1]

It was Hass who lead his partner Derek to his death. Here he is: http://www.rockandriver.com/guideinfo.html?guide=jeremy

I've skied with him (I did not realize who he was until later) and he's a pleasant enough fellow to be around. He very well may have changed as a friend of his claims. On the other hand, I know that a two or three years ago he drove recklessly in a snowstorm despite being asked to take it easy by the afore mentioned friend. He ended up losing control and totaling someone's vehicle, so maybe he hasn't changed that much. It would, however, be extremely inappropriate for someone on this list to contact any of his employers to badmouth him.

I also happen to know the AMC hutperson who had to leave MacDonald Barr to die. It made the read all the more powerful. Not something I would ever want to experience.

I strongly disagree What Hass did was both dangerous and wrong his employers should know about him as should his clients . He put many people in grave danger he should not be a guide of any sort . I have a feeling he left out that part of his life when looking for a guidimg job. . Ask any one involved in that SAR about him and send some of thier coments his employers way. Jerrmy should be dealing with the consequenes of his actions not guiding .I am sure Derek's family will be happy to know Hass is now guiding . I am also sure the people involved in that SAR are just overjoyed at his job. .
It is not bad mouthing it is informing about a persons wrong doing and behavior in the mountains . I bet his current employers do not know he was thrown out of the UNH outing club for his reckless behavior .
I bet his guiding comapny would love to here from the SAR folks particualr the onse who were involved in that incdent. folks and read about him not to tion Derek Tinkhams family Hass guiding is just not right. As some one who volunteers for SAR in CO I am appalled that he is guiding people. it is a slap in the face to all who give of them selves to help some one in need.
What Hass did is unforgivable and caused a person to die.
Letting his Current employer know of Hass's past is only fair to the company and thier cleints. I bet they would not be pleased to read the chapter in Howe's Book . Espcially his coments about bring mittens he did not show one bit of remose at all . Maybe thay should contact the UNH outing club about Hass also . I doubt he fully disclosed his infamous and dangerous past.

I found it strange in his "resume " he is supposedly paitent from all I know of him he is a not at all paitent. In fact he was asked to leave the UNH our ting club for pushing people beyond thier limits and not waiting , bsides going on even in bad weather when otheres wanted to turn around.
I doubt he would find emploiyment as aa guide if his past was known to the employer. . I know that good services usually do a extensive check on any prospective guides . I know for a fact he would not be guiding for Exum guides or Aspen Guides.
Two of the better services I am familair with .

 

[BrentD22]

Since Not Without Peril was written...

Does anyone know if anything has been written since 1994 on the subject of Misadventure in the Presidential Range?

 

[Raymond]

http://lexicomm.com/whites

http://www.vftt.org

 

[cbcbd]

http://www.vftt.org

Ha! Excellent

 

[DougPaul]

Does anyone know if anything has been written since 1994 on the subject of Misadventure in the Presidential Range?

Check the accident reports:

Some can be found in Applachia (currently by Mohamed Ellozy)

Accidents in North American Mountaineering, published yearly by the American Alpine club.
http://www.americanalpineclub.org/pages/page/72

Accident Reports for Tuckerman and Huntington Ravines
http://www.tuckerman.org/accident/accident.htm

Hikesafe:
http://www.hikesafe.com/accidentreports.html

A bunch more can be found with the following search:
http://www.google.com/search?hl=en&...s+"mt+washington"+"new+hampshire"&btnG=Search

Doug

 

[Neil]

Most compelling chapter: Macdonald Barr.

Most common themes: not bailing and insufficient gear.

Most imposing feature: the weather.