One man walking solar station.

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Brambor

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I think I'm getting careless with the title but I was wondering whether any of you experimented with buying any of the portable solar rechargers like this one:
solarcharger.jpg


I'm starting planning for another 12 day hike and this time I'm thinking about bringing my digital camera. I was sort of fantasizing about having the solar panel somehow attached to the top of the backpack and charging my camera batteries while I hike.
 
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There is prior similar thread at http://www.vftt.org/forums/showthread.php?t=17763

Which camera and what kind of batteries does it use? Most of the charging devices are set up to charge AA/AAA NiMH cells or cell phones. You may have trouble finding the appropriate hardware to charge proprietary batteries.

Look up how many shots you can get from a single battery and see if it is practical just to carry enough batteries (and flash cards...). (A few extra Lion or lithium cells are also much lighter than most chargers.) You can also prolong battery life by keeping the LCD displays off whenever possible.

Doug
 
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it is a proprietary battery with its own charger. I was hoping that with the solar device i would be able to get a single outlet into which I would plug the charger in.
sigma_bp_31_li_on_battery_d.jpg


sigmadp1_charger-001.jpg
 
it is a proprietary battery with its own charger. I was hoping that with the solar device i would be able to get a single outlet into which I would plug the charger in.
Some of the solar cell arrays might be configured to give a 12V output and you might be able to buy a 12V charger for the battery. An inverter to convert the low solar cell array voltage to 120VAC to use the 120V charger would be too inefficient. (Its doable in theory but IMO you are not likely to be able to find an appropriate efficient low-power inverter.)

You definitely want a proper charger for the battery: Lion batteries can be destroyed (or even explode) if charged improperly.


FWIW, I bought a 120V/12V charger for my Lion camera batteries. I got the cheap one (don't remember the brands, it was from B&H or Adorama) and it runs hot enough that I'm afraid to use it. Hopefully, the more expensive one would have been more efficient and run much cooler. (In this application, high efficiency is vital.)

Doug
 
Thanks Doug. I've been googling and it looks like the technology isn't there yet. I don't know what I'm going to do. I've been very happy with the results Foveon gives me in the outdoors and bright sunlight.
 
heh. I did take 1V 2 years ago with 2 lenses. The DP1 can do very well compared to 5D when it comes to landscape pictures. Not as many megapixels but it upsamples well if needed, deals better with highlights and it it tiny compared to 5D. but...I haven't clicked on your link...perhaps if I can't charge the DP1 batteries I will consider the Canon. My other alternative is the 1V and that is similar.

edit: your link went to DP1 . I thought it went to some portable power solution for 5D. Oh well. :)
btw: that review is 50% bull@@@@. The DP1 really does well when you get to know it :)

3089692305_3ca1cd9bc6_b.jpg
 
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heh. I did take 1V 2 years ago with 2 lenses. The DP1 can do very well compared to 5D when it comes to landscape pictures. Not as many megapixels but it upsamples well if needed, deals better with highlights and it it tiny compared to 5D. but...I haven't clicked on your link...perhaps if I can't charge the DP1 batteries I will consider the Canon. My other alternative is the 1V and that is similar.

edit: your link went to DP1 . I thought it went to some portable power solution for 5D. Oh well. :)
btw: that review is 50% bull@@@@. The DP1 really does well when you get to know it :)

3089692305_3ca1cd9bc6_b.jpg

A bit off topic, but NICE SLED!! One of my favorite pieces of outdoor gear!!!!
 
battery galore

thanks for the kudo's on the sled. We've used these since about 2002 and they're great. Light, small and safe because you can steer them and brake quickly. The only problem is that you don't want to have a pack that goes much below your waist as that will slow you down on descent.

Now back to the power issue. I checked into the cost of the DP1 batteries and they are $20 a pop. They're small and light (cca 2x2x.5) inches. It woudl seem like a waste but if I decided to actually buy enough batteries to last me for the trip it would probably cost me $200 dollars (approximately one battery per day as I already have 2). I would charge them all and store in plastic baggies in a box of Altoids or something like that.

Spending $200 on batteries would probably equal out with spending on Provia 100 at about $10 a pop plus development and then hours of scanning at home. I would shoot on average one roll per day.

So the solar plan is probably not going to work out. Too bad.
 
Brambor said:
heh. I did take 1V 2 years ago with 2 lenses. The DP1 can do very well compared to 5D when it comes to landscape pictures. Not as many megapixels but it upsamples well if needed, deals better with highlights and it it tiny compared to 5D. but...I haven't clicked on your link...perhaps if I can't charge the DP1 batteries I will consider the Canon. My other alternative is the 1V and that is similar.
The lightweights do have their advantages... When I used to hike with my film SLR, I often only carried one lens (28mm) to save weight.

edit: your link went to DP1 . I thought it went to some portable power solution for 5D. Oh well. :)
btw: that review is 50% bull@@@@. The DP1 really does well when you get to know it :)
Sorry--that line was ambiguous. Just referencing the 250 shots/charge for the DP1.

FWIW, last time I went out west, I shot ~1 roll of film/day for a total of ~400 shots. About 2 batteries worth for my current digital cameras (but I had plenty of opportunity to recharge). However, I'd probably take more pics with a digital camera...

Doug
 
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250 shots a day? Wow, that is a lot...you are going to need a lot of memory too. I go with the extra battery routine too, but I only have 2 and I can get like 600 - 800 shots per battery if I keep screen usage to a minimum.

Be careful of the batteries in a metal altoids tin. If the bag opened and the LION batteries shorted out in the tin you could get a serious fire going.

- darren
 
Be careful of the batteries in a metal altoids tin. If the bag opened and the LION batteries shorted out in the tin you could get a serious fire going.
Very true.

One should also make sure that the contacts on each battery are covered--a bunch of batteries stored together can connect together giving you the same effect as a short. Also don't carry with metal objects, eg in a pocket with change and keys.

This caution also applies to NiMH (and is a good idea for any kind of battery)--people have gotten burned from such shorts.


BTW, there are limits on the number of lithium batteries (both primary and Lion rechargable) that you can carry on an airplane.

Doug
 
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This is an interesting topic, and it would be nice to see it broadened beyond the narrow world of Canon gear. I also suspect that Brambor is well onto what I can offer. But since this isn’t a private chat …

For sure, getting adequately batteried up for a 12 day hiking trip away from civilization in our digital photo age is a formidable problem. This is especially so if photography is a significant or driving purpose of the venture. I think one point to bear in mind is that your trip is not my trip, and vice-versa. We need to figure out our own parameters.

In the old days of mechanical cameras and film that essentially meant estimating how many shots I was likely to knock off in a day, and from there figuring out how many rolls of film it would take to cover that expectation plus provide for a reasonable reserve. That also is the starting point for today’s digital photo work, except now we have to know two things: (a) how many shots we can get on a given memory card, and (b) how many shots we get out of a battery pack or set of batteries to run the camera.

One quirk I think may be significant is that digital photography invites us to shoot more frames than we did with film.

In the film days I might have planned for two rolls of 36-exposures each per day, average (72 frames), but now easily might shoot twice that many using a digital camera, without batting an eye.

So, let’s say my basic “frames allotment” for the trip is 150 a day saved to the memory card.

With gear presently on hand, I now get right around 600 images on a 4GB card. So I would require about three 4GB cards for the 12 days of hiking. Is that enough? OK, then, toss in a fourth card (at least) just to be safe.

Now, the batteries issue. This – for me – is a lot tougher.

The process begins with a brief digression:

My own first impulse is to shy away from rechargeable battery systems. This stems from having been burned repeatedly by low performing rechargeable technology in years past. It includes, first, both proprietary and generic NiCad rechargeables used to run various flash systems 25-30 years ago (is it really that long ago?!?), and Nikon’s own rechargeable systems used to run the company’s latter 1990s film cameras and early digital cameras of this decade.

However, rechargeable battery packs for Nikon’s current SLR cameras are vastly improved compared to the older stuff. And “vast improvement” hardly does justice to the reality.

If my experience with the current EN-EL4a battery packs powering my (now a generation old) Nikon D2Hs camera is any indication, I’d be comfortable relying on the company’s current rechargeable technology for a 12 day trip. The batteries hold their charges decently, and handle a lot of shooting.

So, let’s say I can comfortably rely on getting about 900 shots out of a single charge on the battery pack. Given my expectation of 150 images a day, presumably two freshly charged battery packs would get me through the 12 day hike. Is that enough?

Well, not for me. I’d be more comfortable with at least three freshly charged packs … just in case. I have two EN-EL4a packs on hand now, and the third would cost another $110. To my way of thinking, that’s an affordable way to go, since the battery really is a long-term reusable item in the kit, just like a camera body. Like a lens or memory card, a battery pack may be usable in several different camera body models -- even newer ones.

What a given battery pack will deliver depends on the pack itself, the camera, the shooting conditions, and your own shooting habits. Pay attention to what you actually are getting out of a battery to project your own needs over several days.

Finally, if I really had my druthers, I’d prefer an option to resort to regular AA batteries – Lithiums, of course – if need be. (I am the sort who wears suspenders and a belt.) When I was shooting film with my Nikon F5 a few years ago a set of 8 AA Liths would get me through 80-90 rolls of 36-exp film. Compare that to the 12-15 rolls of film on a set of 8 AA Alkalines. The Lithium batteries also are significantly lighter in weight.

Certain Nikon digital SLR models allow for the AA battery option (with an accessory battery holder-grip), which makes them attractive to my eye.

G.
 
What a given battery pack will deliver depends on the pack itself, the camera, the shooting conditions, and your own shooting habits. Pay attention to what you actually are getting out of a battery to project your own needs over several days.
There is more to battery capacity... The capacity of an individual pack depends on its age and history. Older packs tend to have less capacity, Lion, in particular diminishes ~20% per year under certain conditions according to one source*. And abuse, (high temps, improper charging, complete discharging, etc for Lion) will reduce the capacity further.

So if your rechargable batteries are old, it might be worth getting some new ones before that big photographic trip away from one's chargers.

* http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery
additional info at:
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/index.htm

Doug
 
Limits on carrying lithium batteries on aircraft

A correction to my earlier comment: there are restrictions on the number and size of lithium batteries (both primary and lithium-ion) allowed for air travel and shipping.

The rules seem to change fairly frequently so here are some places to look:
http://safetravel.dot.gov/whats_new_batteries.html
http://www.tsa.gov/travelers/airtravel/assistant/batteries.shtm
http://safetravel.dot.gov/definitions.html#spare_batteries
http://www.batteryuniversity.com/partone-5.htm (old)


I read somewhere that aircraft do not have on-board fire fighting capability for lithium metal (in lithium primary cells), but they do have the capability of fighting lithium-ion battery fires. (Lithium metal burns spontaneously upon exposure to air or water.)

Doug
 
Aging of rechargeable batteries certainly is a factor to take into consideration.

My experience with the Nikon EN-EL4a batteries over a couple of years is that they are quite stable and robust. The charging system automatically signals when the packs need recallibration. I shoot enough so my two packs get discharged and recharged at least weekly, and on busy weeks, maybe twice or more, each. I also have watched batteries of this model (ab)used in a multi-user setting, without the kind of failures observed in the earlier Nikon packs. The EN-EL4a packs are excellent technology on their own, and not just by comparison to earlier packs.

I've also seen brand new battery packs that would not hold a charge -- defective from the get-go. They were replaced under warranty, of course.

Again, I think the best way to gauge what your real needs are is by tracking personal experience with your own kit. What works for me may not work so well for you, and vice-versa. There is no really good substitute for conscious hands-on personal experience.

G.
 
Dynamo?

It would be cool to invent some sort of dynamo system that would generate electricity from the power of your hiking similar to a dynamo on a bicycle.

FWIW - I'm going with buying the DP1 batteries and then perhaps selling them used to dp1 users...now that sounds like fun.
 
It would be cool to invent some sort of dynamo system that would generate electricity from the power of your hiking similar to a dynamo on a bicycle.
There are such things as hand generators for cell phones.

The battery capacity is ~5 watt hours ~4 (food) calories ~13K foot-lbs. Might be a bit of work.

Wonder if there are thermoelectric generators to be used with a camping stove? 5 watt hours ~17 btu.

FWIW - I'm going with buying the DP1 batteries and then perhaps selling them used to dp1 users...now that sounds like fun.
Probably the best solution.

You could also set the extra batteries to 40% charge and store them in your refrigerator for next time. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lithium_ion_battery#Storage_temperature_and_charge

Life was so much simpler with film... :)

Doug
 
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simpler with film

That's correct. My first 14 day hike in the Western mountains I used Leica M6 with 35, 50 and 90 Summicron Lenses and one battery in the camera for metering. I had 15 rolls of film and did not use them all at the end of the hike.

2 years ago I used Canon 1V with 1 a 24mm, 50 and 85mm lenses. It was the last film camera I had. Much heavier combo, and slightly better shots, probably due to the metering technology and also due to my previous experience shooting in the West.

This time I want to be as light as with the Leica combo. I think I'll be fine with the DP1 and a bunch of batteries. It's nice to have a video option on the DP1.
 
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