Ossipee Range From Foss Mountain...

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w7xman

Active member
Joined
Sep 25, 2005
Messages
714
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200
Location
Epping, NH
I was really pleased with a lot of my shots from the past weekend, but I think this one is my favorite. I'd love to hear some impressions on the contrast, colors and overall impression...you have been very inciteful to me lately, and I can count on this forum for honest critique.

Best, and thanks in advance!

Techs:
Canon 20D w/Sigma 18-200 @ 18mm
4 Seconds @ F18
ISO 100
2 Stop Hard GND
2 Stop Soft GND
Polarizer


2945916842_4b6d640760_o.jpg
 
Exquisit color! You are not bombarded with reds and yellows, there is the balance of a touch of green in there. Add in the lower valley fog.....perfect! I only wish there was a bit more clouds in the sky to balance it all out, but that is of course out of your hands ;)

Brian
 
The undercast fog really makes this picture. A wonderful and important detail.

G.
 
While looking for something to add or subtract, I could only come up with the same comment as Brian - clouds in the sky would have added something. Maybe the stray uncovered granite "rock" in the front left corner could go and would therefore remove a distraction (but I didn't like any such crop as much as it loses too much of the water and undercast.)

I am left wondering what time of day and what the weather was - the two filters remove some of that, I suspect. Based on the color of the sky and the undercast, I suspect early morning. Maybe because all my own photos have the sun (or its effects) visible I find it somewhat distracting to not have any here.

Nonetheless, another example of fine Salge Photography.

Tim
 
I find the location fascinating with this picture. You photos tend to level the field with beauty. I would have liked to guess where this one was, and the Androscoggin/Mount Madison picture as well.
 
Wow, great shot.

What time of day was it? Where were the filters stacked? Were they both about equal on the sky horizon or where they offset?

Very nice work.

- darren
 
Woa....

I agree with Grumpy. The valley fog is what puts this shot over the top. Without it, its just a normal, stunningly beautiful foliage shot. :) ;)

Awesome.

grouseking
 
Wow, great shot.

What time of day was it? Where were the filters stacked? Were they both about equal on the sky horizon or where they offset?

Very nice work.

- darren

This was shot about 10 to 15 minutes before sunrise, with a clear horizon at my back where the sun is rising. This view is about 120 to 200 degrees from the sun.

The filters are stacked, so the sky has 4 stops of GND. I put the two stop hard grad over the sky only, and the two stop soft grad pulled down to the foreground element, so over the top two thirds of the image.

Hope that helps, and thanks for the comments!
 
Last edited:
This is one of my favorites of yours, which is saying a lot.

Especially with sunrise and sunset shots, it's tempting to "process for effect" - get that sky as brilliant purple as possible, make sure every detail is bright. Here, though as a serious amateur I was able to detect the use of filters, the overall effect is well-balanced and not at all distracting.

The one nitpick I could find is that the very top of the sky has gone grey, especially in the corners - is there maybe a little vignetting from all the filters, or is the darkening just the normal effect of the GNDs, combined with the polarizer? But I certainly wouldn't change the crop. Note: the screen I'm at right now tends to be a little grey in general.
 
This is one of my favorites of yours, which is saying a lot.

Especially with sunrise and sunset shots, it's tempting to "process for effect" - get that sky as brilliant purple as possible, make sure every detail is bright. Here, though as a serious amateur I was able to detect the use of filters, the overall effect is well-balanced and not at all distracting.

The one nitpick I could find is that the very top of the sky has gone grey, especially in the corners - is there maybe a little vignetting from all the filters, or is the darkening just the normal effect of the GNDs, combined with the polarizer? But I certainly wouldn't change the crop. Note: the screen I'm at right now tends to be a little grey in general.


Good catch, and thanks. The effect is due to the polarizer combined with the wide angle lens which can lead to light and dark areas of the sky. The polarizing effect won't be uniform until about 28mm or narrower. I used the polarizer to slow the exposure primarily, and it was turned so that the center was bright, and the edges were darker. In retrospect, a ND filter would have been a better choice for slowing down the exposure.
 
Why would you want to slow down the exposure? I had assumed you used the polarizer to help the colors pop.

- darren
 
Why would you want to slow down the exposure? I had assumed you used the polarizer to help the colors pop.

- darren

That too...and it does for sure.

There has been alot of informal research on color saturation and exposure time. Results have been interesting, and when there is no wind or motion, I try to get times as long as I can...

Examples thread from another site discussing the observed phenomena...
http://www.naturephotographers.net/...SSID=5c763ae6bc69d7eedfb901cd523a00b0&u=18488
 
Nice pic!

w7xman said:
There has been alot of informal research on color saturation and exposure time. Results have been interesting, and when there is no wind or motion, I try to get times as long as I can...

Examples thread from another site discussing the observed phenomena...
http://www.naturephotographers.net/...SSID=5c763ae6bc69d7eedfb901cd523a00b0&u=18488
I just read the reference and don't see any real evidence of what may be actually be happening (perhaps there is some elsewhere). It also isn't clear how rigorous the quoted research is. (And the comparisons to human vision are irrelevant--the issue is comparison of two camera images that are identical except for the use of an ND filter and the corresponding change in the exposure time.)

Film has reciprocity* failure at low intensities, so I can understand changes in the color if film were being used. But digital sensors are essentially linear although increased exposure times will increase the noise. Except for the noise, the digital sensor should record the exact same RAW image.

Digital cameras (and postprocessing) are complicated devices and can alter an image in many ways. It is possible that there are some differences in how the RAW images are being converted to viewable images and this is what people are seeing. For instance, noise reduction processing could increase the saturation. People perceive noisy images differently than a lower noise version in some circumstances, but the images in question didn't look noisy enough for this to be a factor.

Anyhow, maybe it is just the researcher in me, but I'd like to see a plausible mechanism for this purported phenomenon.

* Reciprocity means 1/x intensity at x time will always yield the same density on the film. Reciprocity holds reasonably well for typical films at normal light levels, but not for very low light levels. For very low levels, the effective sensitivity (ISO) goes down.

Doug
 
Nice pic!


I just read the reference and don't see any real evidence of what may be actually be happening (perhaps there is some elsewhere). It also isn't clear how rigorous the quoted research is. (And the comparisons to human vision are irrelevant--the issue is comparison of two camera images that are identical except for the use of an ND filter and the corresponding change in the exposure time.)

Film has reciprocity* failure at low intensities, so I can understand changes in the color if film were being used. But digital sensors are essentially linear although increased exposure times will increase the noise. Except for the noise, the digital sensor should record the exact same RAW image.

Digital cameras (and postprocessing) are complicated devices and can alter an image in many ways. It is possible that there are some differences in how the RAW images are being converted to viewable images and this is what people are seeing. For instance, noise reduction processing could increase the saturation. People perceive noisy images differently than a lower noise version in some circumstances, but the images in question didn't look noisy enough for this to be a factor.

Anyhow, maybe it is just the researcher in me, but I'd like to see a plausible mechanism for this purported phenomenon.

* Reciprocity means 1/x intensity at x time will always yield the same density on the film. Reciprocity holds reasonably well for typical films at normal light levels, but not for very low light levels. For very low levels, the effective sensitivity (ISO) goes down.

Doug



I completely understand your sentiments, and linear is linear, but I've tended to notice it as well. And whatever causes the perception (noise, saturation, internal processing of jpg?) I like the effect...

I would like to see some actual research done with standards and controls, but all I can go on now is what people are seeing and percieving and informally doccumenting...
 
I completely understand your sentiments, and linear is linear, but I've tended to notice it as well. And whatever causes the perception (noise, saturation, internal processing of jpg?) I like the effect...
Certainly doing whatever gets one the desired effect is a valid approach.

I personally feel that I can do better if I understand what I am doing... For instance, would taking the pic without the ND filter and boosting the saturation in postprocessing do the same thing?

I would like to see some actual research done with standards and controls, but all I can go on now is what people are seeing and percieving and informally doccumenting...
Understand.

A few simple but fairly rigorous experiments wouldn't be too hard (but I don't have an ND filter...). For instance, shoot 2 identical RAW pics with equivalent exposures, with and without the ND filter. Everything manual (focus, aperture, exposure, etc) and process identically with simple controllable software (eg dcraw* or ufraw**).

* http://www.cybercom.net/~dcoffin/dcraw/
** http://ufraw.sourceforge.net/
Both are open source (free), currently maintained, and available for PC, Mac, and Unicies (incl Linux). Many might find them to be worth a look-see even if they are not interested in the saturation vs ND filter issue.

Doug
 
Amazing! Another in a long series of your images that I wish I had taken. ;) The only comment I have, and it's not a negative critique, is your images are so wonderfully composed, exposure so pleasingly balanced and colors so delicately saturated that they border on being unreal. They remind me of the cover art http://www.cduniverse.com/images.asp?pid=7614088&cart=788086011&style=music&image=front&title=Coryell%2C+Larry+-+Fairyland+LP from an album of a jazz guitarist whose concerts I used to attend during my college days. I really like the way you turn an extraordinary landscape into something almost magical. I am an unabashed fan. Color me envious.

JohnL
 
Beautiful colors! I'll second JohnL's opinion - the landscape in this photo looks almost otherworldly, like a fantasy/sci-fi locale. Especially due to the great undercast in the background, and the brilliant reds and yellows.

Of course, I mean this in the most positive way, as the photo is stunning in it's beauty! I am envious! :D
 
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