Overflowing barrel of poop at Madison Hut

[Snowflea]

Did a Jackson to Madison Prezi yesterday--*spectacular day*!!! Nearing Madison Hut, I remarked to my husband "I smell sh*t!" Sitting outside the hut, there are 10 blue barrels of (presumably) human waste, (presumably) waiting to be helicoptered out, one of which is overflowing and spilling onto the ground below. The top of the barrel is open a good 8" or so with the contents readily, er, identifiable. It is disgusting.

Just a headzup for anyone heading up toward Madison who might have a pooch who likes to roll in this stuff.

 

[peakbagger]

Disgusting as it is, a picture would be worth a 1000 words. I bet AMC would "love" a photo of an overflowing barrel of human waste in a Alpine Zone.

I may be nearby on Saturday.

 

[skiguy]

Hopefully they don't drop it in Star Lake when they fly it out like they did at Kinsman Pond a while back.

 

[drewski]

But what about black flies?? Are they still present?? I don't mind **** but I hate black flies...

 

[Ken MacGray]

Never mind the AMC getting a photo. I bet the AMC would love if the press got a photo first. Apparently an environmental hazard is ok with them.

 

[sierra]

I know the huts are a " Beloved part of the hiking community". But you have to be willing to suffer the impact they have and will cause. I'm not a hut guy or an AMC guy, but I get they are loved by other's. If it was up to me, I'd give them the wooded huts and remove the Alpine Hut's. Madison and Lakes would be gone. Your talking pristine Alpine tundra, sorry but those area's would be even better if they were natural settings.

 

[DayTrip]

I know the huts are a " Beloved part of the hiking community". But you have to be willing to suffer the impact they have and will cause. I'm not a hut guy or an AMC guy, but I get they are loved by other's. If it was up to me, I'd give them the wooded huts and remove the Alpine Hut's. Madison and Lakes would be gone. Your talking pristine Alpine tundra, sorry but those area's would be even better if they were natural settings.

Couldn't agree with that more. I hate the huts. Never got water in one, bought food in one or stayed in one. They all have grungy areas with barrels and sloppy areas of supplies and unkempt messes lurking behind bushes that scream anti-wilderness. Wouldn't bother me in the slightest if they all vanished.

 

[ChrisB]

waiting to be helicoptered out, eek:

I guess this is a sad necessity at the high huts cause no solids composting solutions are effective in that harsh environment.

But, I've been touring some of the Maine Huts and Trails facilities and do feel they are way ahead of the AMC huts in renewable and earth-friendly solutions.

The caretaker at Flagstaff Lake hut gave me a tour of the "basement" where all the good stuff is located: A massive bank of batteries soaking up charge from big solar panels. A wood fired boiler that heats a 1000 gallon water system circulating among the 4 buildings. And best of all, the hopper of the biggest Clivus toilet system I've ever seen. She flipped open the lid and hauled out a handful off what looked like dirt. "The solids take as year to get to this stage," she said, adding "but now they are non-toxic and can be spread on our garden."

Granted, these huts are all accessible by dirt road. But in spite of that they invest heavily in green technologies.

Pretty cool.

cb

 

[skiguy]

Sad thing is I believe that Madison Hut and the land around it is an inholding within the National Forest owned by the AMC. Certainly gives me no confidence in their ability to sustain a brand new Hut built and then leased on State Land. Go poop in your yard but not in mine.

 

[peakbagger]

Unless things have changed since 1996, the AMC owns a square parcel of land surrounding the hut but the septic system and leach field is on WMNF land. The drawing included with the 1998 hut EIS shows the entire facility operating under a special use permit. I would speculate that one of the requirements of the permit is not to slop the contents of barrel of human waste on the ground.

Do note that the there has been a SOPA in place for Lake of the Clouds hut to replace the failing septic system for quite awhile, so hut waste disposal is an issue.
http://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/f...ZOMDcxT1RVODBJN0o2MTJQRDMwODQ!/?project=47896

Madison Hut does have a composter style system similiar to MHT as does RMC at Crag and Gray Knob. Composters dont work as well as the temps drop. MHT huts are in valleys and the bins are adjacent to the wood boiler so the MHT units have much better chance to operate. The problem is also the usage. In addition to the Madison Hut guests, the general public also uses the waste system heavily. One of the rationals for allowing the huts to remain in 1998 was that given the location of the high huts, if the huts and their facilities were not there, the general public would most likely degrade the environment in the area to a much greater extent by dispersed poor distribution of waste. Anyone who has been at the summit of washington and lake of the clouds in the spring as the snow melts has probably observed the numerous piles of waste and toilet paper left by winter users directly adjacent to the facilities. I expect anyone who has seen that sight might elect not to hang around long on the stone deck on the west side of LOC as that seems to be preferred location.

 

[skiguy]

Unless things have changed since 1996, the AMC owns a square parcel of land surrounding the hut but the septic system and leach field is on WMNF land. The drawing included with the 1998 hut EIS shows the entire facility operating under a special use permit. I would speculate that one of the requirements of the permit is not to slop the contents of barrel of human waste on the ground.

Do note that the there has been a SOPA in place for Lake of the Clouds hut to replace the failing septic system for quite awhile, so hut waste disposal is an issue.
http://www.fs.usda.gov/wps/portal/f...ZOMDcxT1RVODBJN0o2MTJQRDMwODQ!/?project=47896

Madison Hut does have a composter style system similiar to MHT as does RMC at Crag and Gray Knob. Composters dont work as well as the temps drop. MHT huts are in valleys and the bins are adjacent to the wood boiler so the MHT units have much better chance to operate. The problem is also the usage. In addition to the Madison Hut guests, the general public also uses the waste system heavily. One of the rationals for allowing the huts to remain in 1998 was that given the location of the high huts, if the huts and their facilities were not there, the general public would most likely degrade the environment in the area to a much greater extent by dispersed poor distribution of waste. Anyone who has been at the summit of washington and lake of the clouds in the spring as the snow melts has probably observed the numerous piles of waste and toilet paper left by winter users directly adjacent to the facilities. I expect anyone who has seen that sight might elect not to hang around long on the stone deck on the west side of LOC as that seems to be preferred location.

Thanks for the info. Really does look like the AMC needs to get it's SH _ T together.

 

[Breeze]

If you can make it up to the summit of Mt Washington while the summit building is open, ask anyone wearing a NHSP uniform about the waste-treatment unit there.

Granted, that is a road-served location. Hey, when your gut says you gotta, you gotta, road served or not. Blue bag: there is a reason for that protocol.

 

[peakbagger]

Thread drift alert - Mike Pelchat manager of the state park on the summit (when he is not rescuing hikers) had suggested opening the summit building early in the spring before the autoroad and cog was open for use by the ever increasing hordes of hikers and day trippers to deal with the waste issue. Apparently the high tech waste disposal system works better if its in active operation. The system gets overwhelmed when the system has to process large volumes associated with opening the autoroad and cog. The hiker use would apparently prime the system. There was opposition by the rest of the summit commission and it was dropped.

 

[roadtripper]

A friend of mine worked at Lakes of the Clouds Hut and said that some of the waste used to "sneak" into the Ammonoosuc. AMC might want to tighten some processes.

 

[sierra]

A friend of mine worked at Lakes of the Clouds Hut and said that some of the waste used to "sneak" into the Ammonoosuc. AMC might want to tighten some processes.

Funny you mentioned that. I've given that a lot of thought in the last 4 year's, as I hike with my dog now. I have wondered how "pure" the Ammou brook is with that Hut right on top of it. It would seem dam near impossible, not to impact that water source with 1000's of human's up there do their thing.

 

[skiguy]

Funny you mentioned that. I've given that a lot of thought in the last 4 year's, as I hike with my dog now. I have wondered how "pure" the Ammou brook is with that Hut right on top of it. It would seem dam near impossible, not to impact that water source with 1000's of human's up there do their thing.

Not to be a know it all sierra but when I had my Aussie our vet used to give her something annually I think or biannually to protect her from water born stuff like Giardia.

 

[sierra]

Not to be a know it all sierra but when I had my Aussie our vet used to give her something annually I think or biannually to protect her from water born stuff like Giardia.

Really? I'll look into that, he drinks a lot up there while hiking. Look, I'll take any tips about my dog, thanks for the info.