owls head trail distruction by ranger.

[sierra]

forestnome,
Are you kidding or what? America has rule of law? You must be a lawyer. America is based on freedom of expression, not law, go look up some of the old or outdated laws, there are books of them, try and base your life on the many laws that make no sense.
America is for free thinkers, you may be confined to legalities and societys contraints, but I assure you, some people are not and thank god for that. I feel bad for people who live and die by government, they have thier purpose mind you, but I would rather they keep out of the wilderness and let us roam as we please, which is exactly what I do, when I leave the pavement and enter the woods.
Im amazed at the 2 kinds of people that use the backcountry, to me its like this, those who live, eat and breath the wilderness, that would die for it or in it with no regrets and those who go into it, but never really understand the true meaning of it.

 

[Puma concolor]

See dms' Owl's Head Trip Report for the latest on this silliness.

 

[Orsonab]

Power to the People! (as long as the cairn is a small one)

Seems to me the results of Ranger Dick's Dastardly Deeds will be
1) More wilderness trampled under the feet of 4K peakbaggers looking for a trail that's marked on every AMC map I've ever seen.
2) More people lost deep in the woods looking for a trail that's on every AMC map I've ever seen, possibly necessitating rescues involving already-overworked forest rangers.

All that will happen is that hikers will be now more intent on leaving markings for this trail creating more work for Ranger Dick (and taking him away from other, more pressing needs). You see, Dick, there's the "spirit" of the Law and then there's the "letter" of the Law - there's sometimes a difference.

And what's this about no car-camping at trailheads? Do you mean I shouldn't be sleeping in my car the night before a hike?

 

[darren]

Uhhhh...let me see...

Hanging up a sign that tells you that you can not hang signs?

Cutting blazes off of trees?

Cutting down trees because they have blazes on them?

All of this in a "Wilderness Area"? It seems that Ranger Dick needs to get his head examined. Sounds like someone needs to to read the rule book to him.

So nice to see my WMNF fees going to such good use. I was sooooo happy to have air conditioned bathrooms with flush toilets at the trailhead and now to have service like this from a forest ranger in the same area. Wow, what a National Forest. It should be a model for all others.

I don't think I will be buying a parking pass next year and I also do not think I will be paying the day fees either. No chance in me paying a parking "ticket" either. What a waste of my money and a total mockery of "law enforcement". Ranger Dick sounds like someone with an ego problem that was too stupid to pass the State Police exam.

- darren

 

[forestgnome]

forestnome,
Are you kidding or what? America has rule of law? You must be a lawyer. America is based on freedom of expression, not law, go look up some of the old or outdated laws, there are books of them, try and base your life on the many laws that make no sense.
America is for free thinkers, you may be confined to legalities and societys contraints, but I assure you, some people are not and thank god for that. I feel bad for people who live and die by government, they have thier purpose mind you, but I would rather they keep out of the wilderness and let us roam as we please, which is exactly what I do, when I leave the pavement and enter the woods.
Im amazed at the 2 kinds of people that use the backcountry, to me its like this, those who live, eat and breath the wilderness, that would die for it or in it with no regrets and those who go into it, but never really understand the true meaning of it.

Oh boy...

Rule of law means that we elect people to write laws by which we must live, as opposed to RULE OF DICTATORSHIP! That's when a dictator makes laws that everyone has to live with.

Rule of law is what allows what you call "freedom of expression" etc. You seem to want to pick and choose which laws you personally want to respect and break. If we all did that, chaos would result, and your freedom would be replaced by dictatorship. I think it is you who lacks education about government and history, not me.

I don't know how you determined that I "never really truely understand the true meaning" of being in wilderness areas, as opposed to those like you who "live, eat, breath, and would die for it". Sounds phony to me. You would die for it? Yeah, right. I get kick out of urban crunchies

I agree that the best thing for Owl's Head is an official and maintained path, to avoid erosion by herd paths. The civilized way to correct the situation is though the legal process. Until that happens, there will be no single trailbed and the erosion will continue. Ranger Dick isn't going away. The lawlessness accomplishes nothing.

 

[dug]

I bought a parking pass the first year they came out. I have never purchased one since. I have never been ticketed. I doubt I'd pay that "ticket", either.

I'm not contributing any more than I have to pay for this idiot's salary.

 

[Puma concolor]

One of the things I have always admired about those who climb mountains and an attribute I have tried to build in myself is the rapid ability to adjust to new realities. Whether it be an unexpected storm, realizing you're lost or working your way through an injury, mountain-types typically work through "problems" with relative calm.

I don't really have anything good to say about Ranger Dick, but he does represent a "new reality" of sorts. The chance of defeating his petty dictatorship is pretty slim ... unfortunately he has the letter of the law on his side. Given that he poses no real threat to us and the Owl's Head slide climb is pretty easy (how tough is it to just climb up?), perhaps the best thing is to just deal with it. Choose your battles wisely.

 

[John H Swanson]

One of the things I have always admired about those who climb mountains and an attribute I have tried to build in myself is the rapid ability to adjust to new realities. Whether it be an unexpected storm, realizing you're lost or working your way through an injury, mountain-types typically work through "problems" with relative calm.

I don't really have anything good to say about Ranger Dick, but he does represent a "new reality" of sorts. The chance of defeating his petty dictatorship is pretty slim ... unfortunately he has the letter of the law on his side. Given that he poses no real threat to us and the Owl's Head slide climb is pretty easy (how tough is it to just climb up?), perhaps the best thing is to just deal with it. Choose your battles wisely.

Interesting, and quite in line with the philosophy that most problems if ignored, go away. (or some times they blow-up) I think this ranger is probably just looking for a "fight" as he thinks the law will support what he is doing and he will win it.

When you think about it...the other places where these signs were used, like the passaconaway slide, the routes were easy to follow, and with the help of VFTT, easy to find. There really wasn't a need for marking or maintaining. It's not like thay are saying "you can't climb owlshead."

Of course, all the erosion issues I previously stated will still exist.

JHS

 

[KMartman]

Ranger Dick sounds like someone with an ego problem that was too stupid to pass the State Police exam.

- darren

Im sure this is EXACTLY the case.....

Glad someone else was thinking the same thing I was...I hate those who "abuse" the powers given them...

M

 

[Jasonst]

If I know human nature as I suspect I do, this action will result in the OHP being the best maintained trail in the whites.

 

[sierra]

Forestnome,
I stated there where 2 kings of wilderness users, but if you reread my post, I did not classify you as either as I do not know you well enough. Secondly I am far from an "urban crunchy" Im a mountaineer, who devotes most of my time to the mountains and therefore has a serious and educated opionion on wilderness issues. I do not suggest a lawless society at all, but saying that I do believe some laws are foolish and handed down by peoples and officials who have no business decideding how WE as a people should use our land, yes I said our land.
The parking pass is one issue Ive taken exception with. It was in place for a few years before left for the west and I never bought a pass, I was dead set against it from the start. My main point was that the Govt runs the land through our tax dollars and it was clearly a double tax imo, regardless of the money staying in the Whityes big deal, if all areas of the country said that it still the same result we pay again. This ranger dick dude who I know little about seems to be a good place to start, here we go and pay for the trails and facilties and are repaid back by being harrassed by the very people are money goes to, you have to admitt thats ironic.
I miss the days of the old privies and little else, I do not need or carefore the fancy rest areas and exotic bathrooms the money is used for.
Forestnome I dont know you, do not wish to get into with you in anything but a contructive way, being america we are all entitied to our own opinion and all, even though me and you seem to look at things quite differently. Peace man, life is short.

 

[RoySwkr]

He also explained to me that the USFS did not have time to organize volunteers to maintain their trails, although I have since learned that some USFS trails are indeed maintained by volunteers.

My mother used to be a FS volunteer, and the statement made by the ranger is somewhat true. She once went an entire season without getting a free parking sticker although it was required for her trailhead, the next year we couldn't get one from the ranger district and had to inquire of Forest HQ before the district would issue one.

Part of this is a genuine staffing issue (the rec tech is also the forestry tech and may be out west fighting forest fires), and part of it is bureaucracy/job descriptions - after a traffic accident the cop won't sweep up even a minor amount of debris but will call the highway department to do it.

 

[forestgnome]

Forestnome,
I stated there where 2 kings of wilderness users, but if you reread my post, I did not classify you as either as I do not know you well enough. Secondly I am far from an "urban crunchy" Im a mountaineer, who devotes most of my time to the mountains and therefore has a serious and educated opionion on wilderness issues. I do not suggest a lawless society at all, but saying that I do believe some laws are foolish and handed down by peoples and officials who have no business decideding how WE as a people should use our land, yes I said our land.
The parking pass is one issue Ive taken exception with. It was in place for a few years before left for the west and I never bought a pass, I was dead set against it from the start. My main point was that the Govt runs the land through our tax dollars and it was clearly a double tax imo, regardless of the money staying in the Whityes big deal, if all areas of the country said that it still the same result we pay again. This ranger dick dude who I know little about seems to be a good place to start, here we go and pay for the trails and facilties and are repaid back by being harrassed by the very people are money goes to, you have to admitt thats ironic.
I miss the days of the old privies and little else, I do not need or carefore the fancy rest areas and exotic bathrooms the money is used for.
Forestnome I dont know you, do not wish to get into with you in anything but a contructive way, being america we are all entitied to our own opinion and all, even though me and you seem to look at things quite differently. Peace man, life is short.

Darn it, I wanted to edit my post before you saw it, just got home. Sorry about the cruncy thing, but you called me a lawyer and implied a lack of reverence for the wilderness. Nothing could be further from the truth, but I'll bet your reverence is just as real and deep, and not "phony". So, sorry.

I'll succinctly restate my point. Petty back-and-forth with enforcement agents solve nothing. As uptight as Ranger Dick may be, he isn't going away. If there is a way to change the law, or get an official trail designation, then the zealous Ranger Dick's efforts would be eliminated. The singular, well-marked trailbed would reduce erosion.

Also, choosing to respect laws that we like, and breaking those we don't, would result badly for everyone. It always does.

Imagine if the USFS decided that a service road up though the heart of the Pemi Wilderness was in the best interest of the wilderness, so they can stop a potential forest fire (sound familiar?). So, they go and plow down trees and turn Franconia Brook trail into a road, all the way up to 13 Falls. We'd all cry foul. "Hey, that's against the law so you can't do that!!!" But wait, they decided that they didn't like that part of the law that says 'no roads', so they ignored it.

No law exists that pleases everyone.

We hikers benefit tremendously from the Wilderness Act, and the laws that govern National Forest. No, I can't lagally camp in places that I'd like. But land developers can't line the Kancamagus Highway with condos, either. Imagine the golf corse they could build in the Pemi or the Great Gulf?

Anyway, Happy Trails

 

[tycho_32]

I was ticketed once when climbing the Kinsmans. Neither my hiking buddy nor I saw the sign--we got there real early and had gotten up real early. I never paid the ticket--not because I didnt want to but because I forgot. Nothing ever came of it.
You know the funny thing I was just reading Backpacker and it was a story about the Siskayou (sp) Wilderness and the writer made an interesting comment about Forest Rangers. He said that most are people who love the outdoors and everything about it but are forced to enforce laws they dont like because that is the job they are paid to do. This ranger sounds like a person who may honestly think he is doing the best for the wilderness area but has not thought about the ramifications of his actions and how they will affect the mountain he probably loves.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

A lot of you may not remember this far back in time (1960s), but there was not always a Kancamagus Highway punched right through the heart of what eventually became two separate wilderness areas, the Pemi and the Sandwich. In fact, there was an incredibly strong lobby at the time to punch a road right through the Pemi via Shoal Pond and Zealand Notch to join with the Sugarloaf Road (you know, the one that is now closed so that the USFS can use our parking fees (well maybe they are, and maybe they are not using our parking fees, as they ain't tellin') to rebuild the bridge over the Ammonoosuc River to accommodate oversize logging trucks, gigantic skidders, and the like to rape dozens more acres of the Whites). And, puleeeease, do not try to feed me any more of that tripe about how clear cutting opens up more deer yards, etc.; those are stupid arguments that have absolutely no basis in fact. Those of you concerned about trail erosion on one path versus many should check out any clear cuts in our national forests after the the timber rapers get done with their work if you want to see real unchecked erosion. So, we win some (no road trough Zealand Notch), we lose some (no summit sign on Owls Head). BTW, the "true summit" for OH is close to 1000 ft north of the former sign, not 200 ft as noted above. The Owls Head "spur" will never become an official trail no matter how much lobbying we do, because hikers count diddly squat compared to the timber, snowmobile, and ORV lobbies. There was/is good reason that the North Passaconaway (Downes Brook) Slide Trail was abandoned, as the upper part of that trail would have become terribly eroded unless the trail's upper part had been re-routed with many switchbacks, etc., which would have required a huge effort, even in the 1960s when the USFS did more trail work than they do today (I still think that the NPST is a fabulous winter route in the Whites, especially for descents). Word to the wise: do not get caught red-handed with any trail maintenance tools in your hands or pack on the OH or NPS trails. And, finally, I agree, you gotta' love the irony that the USFS "threat signs" serve exactly the purpose that the USFS set out to thwart, that is, they provide markers to indicate the bottoms and tops (in the case of NPST) of the routes! And, replacing the blue paint with Daniel Boone-sque blazes is a fine retro touch!!

 

[Artex]

Ranger Dick and the Rest

Hey, just thought I'd mention that I spoke with a ranger (I'm not comfortable mentioning his name) at great length when I was on the Bonds this weekend. This issue came up, and THEY DO LISTEN. Discusssion about possible solutions has come up as a direct result of this thread. He was genuinely happy to see a discussion take place over it, and that discussion has reached their higher offices.

The ranger also mentioned that the laws are the laws, and like it or not, they have to enforce them. They are simply doing their job. However, he did say the best solution was for someone to go about taking the proper steps in making the trail up to Owl's Head an official one. If done, trail markers and such would be allowed.

This ranger was NOT "Ranger Dick". However, he did mention word got back to this ranger about what he was being called. Whether that's good or not is one's own opinion I suppose, but it is food for thought about being careful what you say because they are listening... and in the case of the ranger I spoke with, they also sincerely care.

 

[sierra]

To be honest, Ive met and talked to Rangers all across the country and IM left with nothing but positive things to say. I have not had any encounters with the Ranger in this thread but every group has its rouge employees, is it possible his rep is based on limited info and exagerated from there? Not second guessing anyone on this site, but Im one for giving people the benifit of the doubt untill given a reason not to.

 

[darren]

We can't self police our group, so Rangers need to represent and uphold the law accordingly.

Brownie

If cutting down trees in a Wilderness Area is upholding the law then I guess I missed that day in school.

What group holds the Rangers to the law?

- darren

 

[arghman]

On the positive side of things, the sign is as good as a cairn for marking the start of the path and doesn't seem too terribly obnoxious. It does, after all, "welcome" backcountry use. It isn't too different from the various "alpine zone" and "warning" signs you see throughout the WMNF.

I disagree and am so glad I hiked it last weekend before the sign went up. (Did they really put it at the bottom of the Owls Head path? in Wilderness? I still find it slightly hard to believe.) Never mind the Kafkaesqueness of the sign, that's just vaguely amusing. ("Anyone caught drawing attention to the spot below this sign will be fined $5000!!!") When Tuco and I hiked the Lincoln Brook Trail to Owls Head, one of the thoughts going through my head was that there were no blazes on the trail; I was weighing the tradeoffs in my head to try to come to terms with this Wilderness philosophy. No blazes = people might get lost, but on the other hand it's pretty easy to follow (in summer at least) and no blazes = no imprint of civilization. So maybe the efforts to eradicate blazes and cairns were a little extreme, but I have to admit they were in line with an absolutist interpretation of Wilderness (with a big W).

Well, this sign now appears to be the "long pole in the tent" -- that is, if you hike to Owls Head, the most jarring reminder of civilization and its rules and penalties, is this sign. Nowhere else within a few miles (to my knowledge) is there anything else even close. Here you are trying to enjoy the wilderness (with a small W) and BLAM, the sign is in your face, disrupting all that.

I thought that was the whole basis for Wilderness philosophy, that the Forest Service was trying to do a good job in quieting down the "noise" of civilization to a point where it was the most minimal impact possible. (Why else would you go to the trouble of removing fairly innocuous things, like shelters and bridges, with their minimal imprints on the forest?)

What's the point if you're going to put up a sign like that? How is this better than a cairn or blazes, which are about the most minimal imprints of civilization possible in the forest? (A cairn would be slightly less of an imprint than a painted blaze, as it is neither permanent nor artificial.)

I had some begrudging respect for the WMNF ranger(s) enforcing Wilderness policy, but if this sign is in fact the next step in that policy, I've lost that respect, and I'm very mad. When I get around to writing my letter to the NH Congressional delegation re: Big W Wilderness and the perhaps questionable appropriateness of expanding it in a small, populated state like NH, the Owls Head episode will be in that letter.

 

[arghman]

...and the tree that was cut down (see J&J's post and pictures) was just left there, blaze intact. I saw only one on 9/3/05, the rest of the trees appeared to all have had their blazes scraped. If this one tree was cut down to remove a blaze and minimize the imprint of civilization, it should have been chucked in the woods, blaze face down. When I was out hiking that day, the sight of this tree, and the image of someone cutting it down and just leaving it there, struck me as being more symbolic than effective, though that's just my interpretation.