Pay More 2 Play (WMNF proposed fee changes)

vftt.org

Help Support vftt.org:

This site may earn a commission from merchant affiliate links, including eBay, Amazon, and others.
Waumbek

Waumbek

New member
Joined
Oct 27, 2004
Messages
1,890
Reaction score
209
Location
Avatar: "World's Windiest Place" Stamp (5/27/06)
A 50% increase. I guess the Government has to find new ways to fund USA Citibank. If cutting what's left of funding for the National Forest is part of Budget, looks like I'll still have to belong to SC.

Do we have a proposed effective date? I'll go up last minute & get a $20. pass. They won't make us pay the extra $10 after it goes in effect. (WMNF Clawback);)
 
With the amounts we spend on gear, food, fuel and everything else to pursue a voluntary activity is a $10/year increase really that big a deal? How does that figure into the total hiking budget? How much increase is there in the cost to provide the service?? I think I can handle it.

There are many other increases going on. Compare it to the 156% increase tax increases for those who smoke http://pressherald.mainetoday.com/story.php?id=242069&ac=PHnws. Healthy activities still cost less! :D
 
Good deal, I'll pay it. Maybe my attitude has changed now that I'm a displaced NH'ite/er. I've paid less than that for other things where I live now and have gotten zero satisfaction from them, so $30 would be OK. My only comment to the gov't would be that I would totally expect the increase to be reflected and invested back into the WMNF. ( We also pay for the tag even as trail maintainers who park at Lincoln Woods.) If in the end it supports my home forests and mountains, I'll pay it.

My brother (lives in Gorham) and I have talked about this at length. I believe that its a bit excessive for residents of said counties in which WMNF exists to pay extra. They already pay to keep the roads in service as it is up there. It couldn't be too hard to differentiate, I mean if you can show up at a local ski area on Locals Day, flash your drivers' license and get a discount authenticating where you live, how hard could it be for the WMNF to see that as well? At the very least they should receive a substantial discount.

OK, maybe my Jefferson local blood is brewing a bit.....:D
 
Waumbek said:
The details are in the link, basically a rise in the cost of the basic annual pass from $20 to $30 with a few offsets (e.g., no fee for dispersed camping at Gale River). Discuss away here, but the bottom line is to send your comments in to WMNF. Contact info is at the end of the link article.

I didn't read any thing about the senior passes that now cost $10.00 for life. I'll be 62 in march, and have been waiting for that senior pass benefit. It seems like every few years various places like ski resorts and the like are raising the senior requirements.
Click to expand...
 
Wolfgang said:
I didn't read any thing about the senior passes that now cost $10.00 for life. I'll be 62 in march, and have been waiting for that senior pass benefit. It seems like every few years various places like ski resorts and the like are raising the senior requirements.
Click to expand...
The senior pass is good for any National Park or Forest in the country. I've used it happily for some years. A decision to change that would come at the National level, so I'm not worried about local changes.
 
Heck, I like paying my pass. When I mail it in I send a note to my former 1989 graduate who works the desk processing the applications. She always sends a note back with my pass. I wouldn't recommend that its the cheapest way to keep in touch, but might as well use it for what its worth.

But seriously, as Wolfgang mentioned the WMNF is willing to take feedback, why not take advantage of it? Its our forests too, and each and everyone of us care about it.
 
I might be wrong but I believe the senior pass is good also for Corp. of Engineer parks.

I mt bike a lot in Sumter NF in SC. There is some talk of doing the parking pass as well. Most of the bikers/hikers I have talked to are in favor of it as long as the money stays in Sumter not sent to DC.
 
Speaking as a local, I would much rather have the congress fully fund the "Payment of Lieu of Taxes" that the government is supposed to reimburse the towns for land that could be paying property taxes but is owned by the government. I am not sure what the current numbers are, but in the past the forest service could only pay for about 1/3 of what is authorized by congress. That makes a big hit on a small town that has a lot of forest service property.
 
I'm really disappointed in the VFTT community and it's largely apathetic and accepting attitude towards these fees. I would encourage all of you to visit this site: Western Slope No Fee Coalition and to read carefully the Federal Lands Recreation Enhancement Act. [Edit to add:] I would also encourage all VFTTers to write or email Ms. Leberman objecting to the fee increase, and to the FLREA in general (see Union Leader article for contact information), and to send a copy to your U.S. Senators and Representatives.

At least two of the dispersed camping areas that are mentioned in the Union Leader article above (Gale River Road & Haystack Road) did not conform to the FLREA and were therefore illegally charging fees. The Forest Service is only correcting its policy to conform with the law.

If you feel that you should be contributing extra compensation for the burden you put on the hiking trails, join a club such as the Green Mountain Club or the AMC, and better yet, volunteer for trail maintenance.
 
Last edited:
TEO said:
I'm really disappointed in the VFTT community and it's largely apathetic and accepting attitude towards these fees. I would encourage all of you to visit this site: Western Slope No Fee Coalition and to read carefully the Federal Lands Recreation Enhancement Act.

At least two of the dispersed camping areas that are mentioned in the Union Leader article above (Gale River Road & Haystack Road) did not conform to the FLREA and were therefore illegally charging fees. The Forest Service is only correcting its policy to conform with the law.

If you feel that you should be contributing extra compensation for the burden you put on the hiking trails, join a club such as the Green Mountain Club or the AMC, and better yet, volunteer for trail maintenance.
Click to expand...


Teo, I am not sure why you should be "disappointed" in the VFTT community on this. I think that people can legitimately have different opinions on this without being labeled as "apathetic". For my part, the amount of enjoyment I get out of the WMNF each year exceeds by orders of magnitude the cost of the pass, even if it is increased. On the other hand if others disagree, and think the cost is excessive, or that any annual fee is inappropriate, I have no problem with that point-of-view. I think the thread is useful in that it provides contact information to those that do want to register their opinion.

Larry
 
One problem is that when people pay these fees, they are showing support for them and the FLREA. Some of these fees are unquestionably illegal, such as the ones they've been charging at the campsites on Gale River Road; others, such as trailhead fees, violate the spirit and often the letter of the law; and the law itself is bad. National Forest Land doesn't belong only to those who hike, fish, hunt, log, or camp on it; it doesn't belong only to the people who live near it or in the same state, it belongs to every single citizen of this country. That means that everybody should be able to use it and everybody who is able should help to pay for it. FLREA is shifting the burden from the owners of the land to those who use it.

A sad result of this policy is that it limits public land to only people who can afford to use the land. While the fees may be relatively small now, they are increasing and will continue to do so. Out West, the problem is worse, there are many more different National Forests, and your season pass will only work at one of them (unless you have a senior pass or a relatively expensive America the Beautiful Pass).

Finally, the idea that you have to pay to do something as simple as walk on public land is just plain wrong.

If you feel like you should be paying extra*, that's fine, mail in a donation to the Forest Service, but when you pay these fees, you are supporting an un-American policy and law.

*I believe that those of us who recreate in the backcountry should contribute something extra, and I think that hiking clubs are a great way to do that.
 
Expressing my opinions on government and land use would invoke the ire of the moderators and the "no politics" rule. So please do not confuse apathy and following the rules of VFTT as one and the same.

Tim
 
TEO said:
If you feel like you should be paying extra*, that's fine, mail in a donation to the Forest Service, but when you pay these fees, you are supporting an un-American policy and law.

*I believe that those of us who recreate in the backcountry should contribute something extra, and I think that hiking clubs are a great way to do that.
Click to expand...
Some of us do both, and have no problems sleeping at night. Let's say I think your assessment of an "un-American policy and law" is overly dramatic.
 
TEO said:
Finally, the idea that you have to pay to do something as simple as walk on public land is just plain wrong.
Click to expand...

As far as I can tell the parking fee covers only the cost to use the cleared, plowed (usually) trailhead parking area. If hikers and others didn't use the lots there'd be no need for the expense of building and maintaining them.

I've yet to see a fee charged to use a trail. Should you want to avoid the parking fee simply park in the nearest public lot and walk to the trailhead.
 
Last edited:
StashZdanuk said:
As far as I can tell the parking fee covers only the cost to use the cleared, plowed (usually) trailhead parking area. If hikers and others didn't use the lots there'd be no need for the expense of building and maintaining them.
Click to expand...

Disagree - That is what they say, but I think they plow becuase they need tourism in winter and they would be plowed regardless of this fee or not.

When I hike or climb - usually, I buy food, gas, and sometimes lodging in NH - all I think has a tax already. I think if the lots were not plowed - at least some hikers wouldn't come up to play - and then at least some local economy is hurt.

Its business sense or at least it should be. The fact is most hikers tend to fall in a certain place on the political spectrum that seems to not mind paying taxes and not question increases becuase it benefits everyone.... yea right.
 
Keep in mind there are two public entities here - the WMNF and it's associated fee for "improved trailhead facilities" is a federal government organization. The same government who is not paying the current-use fee / property taxes to the local communities which hold the land. I believe all the plowing, and certainly all the taxes paid while in NH (Gas, Room and Meals) benefit the state government which charges no fees for parking anywhere. It is the state government to which F&G belongs, which is tasked with SAR, funded by license fees charged to hunters, fishermen, kayakers, boaters, etc., but not generally to hikers.

Tim
 
StashZdanuk said:
I've yet to see a fee charged to use a trail. Should you want to avoid the parking fee simply park in the nearest public lot and walk to the trailhead.
Click to expand...
I've done that frequently at Osceola, Hancock, and others where there is a good option. Wilderness Trail they did spend a lot on hiker amenities and after Owls Head or Bond I don't need any extra walk :) Zealand Road offers no amenities and no good option so I have a problem with that.

I can see charging for amenities but there are other no-amenities sites such as 19_mile Brook which is basically just a wide spot in the road that I will suggest also be removed ftom the fee program.
 
You must log in or register to reply here.

Similar threads

bikehikeskifish
White Mountain National Forest proposes fee increase
2
Replies
20
Views
11K
peakbagger
P
R
WMNF Parking Fee Increase Proposal Jan 30,2017 Comment Deadline
2
Replies
26
Views
22K
Remix
R
arghman
  • Locked
WMNF proposed parking fee increase?
Replies
3
Views
2K
arghman
arghman

Latest posts

Top