peakbaggers: please don't flag...it's trash

[una_dogger]

Yep, I'm an Adirondacker! It wasn't clear in the post that it was an unmaintained trail...

That's what I thought! It is extremely easy to follow -- which made all the flagging that much more ridiculous -- I often have wonders if the flaggers went down Hale Brook or Lend a Hand or were just too lazy to take thier trash out with them on the way out, it was easy enough to find :-(

Thanks for all your Work, FG... Looks like a place well worth the visit ;-)

 

[Motabobo]

For all of you who take upon themselves to remove flagging: who are you to decide it should be removed ? Who are you to be the judge of if it should belong there or not ?

 

[Peakbagr]

In the NYS forest preserve, if the state didn't put the flagging there, the rangers consider it trash.
What I mostly see are people trying to establish a route for others to follow or ATV users wanting to flag their own illegal routes. Some people have removed gallons of zip lock bags of flagging. And the rangers I've talked to in both the ADKs and Catskills would love to find the people doing the flagging.

 

[RoySwkr]

I don't knowing it was ever an official hiking trail-- maybe someone can answer that! ;-)

It was

Too bad the register is gone, or you might have a good guess on the miscreant's name

I feel that leaving flagging of this nature to mark a bushwhack route is not only unnecessary but a great waste of time and energy - I'll bet this person gives up before long

I agree that unless the person who did this had a legitimate reason they should be caught and fined, but I personally would not have removed it for the reasons given

 

[forestgnome]

For all of you who take upon themselves to remove flagging: who are you to decide it should be removed ? Who are you to be the judge of if it should belong there or not ?

As I clearly stated...I followed the trash-trail right to the summit. It ended there. There is evidence of where a canister once hung. The trash-trail went from the hiking trail to the summit. Sooooooooo...

I decided to remove because it is Wilderness and it is an illegal marking through the wilderness. it was an effort to remove it, and it detracted from an otherwise pleasant day in the wilderness. I hiked the Hitchcocks and the Huntingtons without getting scratched because I could choose my own path. Here, I had to follow the path of a beginner needlessly through harsh spruce stands to clean trash from the Wilderness. You're welcome.

Thanks for the kudos from the other posters

 

[timmus]

Sometimes flagged route lead to very thick and crappy woods, and ends in the middle of nowhere. I'm pretty sure someone thought that was funny, but we didn't ! (Unofficial trail on obscure peak in Maine).

 

[Peakbagr]

Patrick, let me add my kudos as well.

 

[Raven]

As I clearly stated...I followed the trash-trail right to the summit. It ended there. There is evidence of where a canister once hung. The trash-trail went from the hiking trail to the summit. Sooooooooo...

Sooooooooo you're calling a duck a duck then. Good!

The tape went to the summit - let's be serious. It's a peakbagger, and although I agree with all the other wonderful uses mentioned for flagging, it really doesn't sound like that's the case here (although these are all good reasons for not removing other random pieces that may not be so obviously a simple path to the top).

My thoughts on removal of the flagging - if the hiker is using them to find his or her route back, you are eventually going to be pulling one out of his or her hand. At that point you can always hold said hiker's hand until the hiker is safely out of the woods.

I took quite a pile off the route to Fort Mountain once - and that's an easy one.

Thanks for taking it down. In this case I agree. It's trash.

 

[TEO]

Thank you! Forestgnome for removing the litter.

If flagging has a legitimate purpose, it should be labelled. If it's not labelled, it's no different than a candy wrapper and it goes in my pocket.

 

[Brambor]

Flagging should not be allowed with plastic

Flagging should not be allowed with plastic or non recyclable materials. If you bring trash to the woods then you deserve to get lost.

I don't like flagging at all but if it must be done for a few days then why not use crepe paper? It will dissolve quick after a few rainstorms.

 

[SteveHiker]

Here, I had to follow the path of a beginner needlessly through harsh spruce stands to clean trash from the Wilderness.

No, you didn't. You choose to. You should have reported it to the rangers and made them do it. Then when they were done, they'd hang up "No Flagging" signs all along the route.

 

[peakbagger]

I dont use flagging for bushwhacking, never have and dont plan on starting.

There is biodegradable flagging sold by surveying supply firms. I have seen it used on wetlands deliniation projects. Its usually gone after less than a year. I wish that the S&R folks would use it as I have found lots of flagging in areas that were part of a search over the years.

The WMNF also uses it in many spots. I have encountered several plots in the woods over the years deliniated by flagging. I am not sure if they were for research or marking potential future cuts

I inadvertently may have been party to stranding some folks on Scar Ridge once by removing a very fresh rather extensive flag line up from Little East pond once. It was definitely a peakbaggers route as it zigged and zagged. We encountered it early on and removed as much as we could until diverging off the route to take a straighter route to the summit. We were doing the ridge so we we ended up crossing the projection of the flag line. While in dense woods we encountered some folks and after saying Hi we looked back and noticed that they were flagging their route as they walked away. We didnt say anything and headed off for the next peak. I didnt see any rescue reports the next day, but unless it was coincidence, I suspect their trip down may have been "interesting".

On the other hand I do use and plan to use flagging for AT Corridor Boundary work in places where the blazes are marginal and the growth is thick. We are not allowed to make any new blazes on trees, but in places flagging is needed in order to have a site line. If I or another party get around to clearing and remarking the boundary, I can then take the flagging down. The intent of boundary maintenance is to make the line obvious so no one inadvertently crosses the line and flagging is a temporary tool for this purpose.

 

[MichaelJ]

Often "official" flagging is marked as such with permanent marker. I would like to think that putting 'AT Bound' on your flags with a Sharpie will go a long way towards preventing their removal. Much like how once in a while on a trail you'll see some flags, usually labeled, which with a little observation make it clear that they're marking worksites on the trail.

I would hazard a guess that most of the time, it's pretty easy to tell what's there for a valid reason vs. what's just someone's trash.

One should never feel bad about removing trash from the woods or the wilderness. Refer to the GPS vs. Map & Compass thread if you think you should be guilty if someone can't find their way back out.

 

[Little Rickie]

Flagging should not be allowed with plastic or non recyclable materials. If you bring trash to the woods then you deserve to get lost.

I don't like flagging at all but if it must be done for a few days then why not use crepe paper? It will dissolve quick after a few rainstorms.

There is biodegradable flagging sold by surveying supply firms. I have seen it used on wetlands deliniation projects. Its usually gone after less than a year.

Problem not solved but it's a good idea and would help.

 

[sierra]

First off I wish I found those moose antlers, secondly flagging I Learned this year has many uses. I need to confess something here, I was hiking up Monadnock and there was trailwork being done, I went past the workers and saw alot of trees flagged along the trail, some where rotten and then I saw some that where very healthy and not really in the way at all. I got pissed that some really beautifull trees where going to be cut down for what I could see was no good reason. I cut off a few of the flags to save a few trees (really my heart was in the right place). I later learned that alot of the flagging was colored and meant to direct trail workers to the task that needed to be done, the flags did not mean a tree was in jeapordy at all. I did feel bad, they where doing good work and I didnt help, but I did learn something.

 

[forestgnome]

Thanks, all...this has been a good thread.

And sure, I've seen flagging from timber harvest and surveying, and I've seen flagging intended to identify tasks for trail work. It's beyond obvious. I always leave those alone.

I've also seen flagging that marked the boundary for WMU for the moose hunt. I didn't remove those. It's not my right.

And if a massive SAR grid search effort was underway, well, again...obvious.

happy respectful off-trail peakbagging

 

[cooperhill]

First off I wish I found those moose antlers, secondly flagging I Learned this year has many uses. I need to confess something here, I was hiking up Monadnock and there was trailwork being done, I went past the workers and saw alot of trees flagged along the trail, some where rotten and then I saw some that where very healthy and not really in the way at all. I got pissed that some really beautifull trees where going to be cut down for what I could see was no good reason. I cut off a few of the flags to save a few trees (really my heart was in the right place). I later learned that alot of the flagging was colored and meant to direct trail workers to the task that needed to be done, the flags did not mean a tree was in jeapordy at all. I did feel bad, they where doing good work and I didnt help, but I did learn something.

Oops. No harm, no foul. I was one of those workers. Join us next year to learn more about it! It is run by the NH Forest Society.

As a general comment, and as mentioned previously this flagging was marked with specific work tasks.

 

[swamp]

Several years ago I was off-trail in the woods heading into the Hitchcocks (off the Pemi East trail). I found a bunch of flagging in a dead-straight line that didn't appear to lead anywhere in particular.
I later asked a forest service person about it and was told that wildlife surveys are done at various places in the Whites. Researchers go to each flag and record the plants and critters they observe at that location at different times of the year.

 

[Kevin Rooney]

And if a massive SAR grid search effort was underway, well, again...obvious.

Nope, not so obvious if the SAR effort is recovery. Grids can be established in search areas, and search efforts can continue for weeks, sometimes months.

Two weeks ago I ran into some friends on the local mountain rescue SAR, and they were searching a quadrant for remains of someone who died in 1986. They set flags to make the quadrants, so they won't have to search those areas again.

Things are not always as they appear.

 

[Brambor]

I would hope that a gps unit with recorded waypoints would suffice instead of bringing plastic into the woods.

Nope, not so obvious if the SAR effort is recovery. Grids can be established in search areas, and search efforts can continue for weeks, sometimes months.

Two weeks ago I ran into some friends on the local mountain rescue SAR, and they were searching a quadrant for remains of someone who died in 1986. They set flags to make the quadrants, so they won't have to search those areas again.

Things are not always as they appear.