Peakbagging article featuring vifters
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peak_bgr
New member
Was this the article you wrote? It was you writing an article right?
Meo,
You were writing an article about this. Can you reprint it here or link us to somewhere we can see it?
PB
You were writing an article about this. Can you reprint it here or link us to somewhere we can see it?
PB
Neil
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I just read the article and Oh Boy! does it ever make you guys look like a bunch of sorry, no-life, losers! Just kidding. Its a well researched, well written piece of journalism looking at different sides and presenting opposing opinions about the peakbagging phenomenon, peak lists, neglected relationships, etc.
I remember the thread Meo started on the subject got lots of replies and views and reading the article I was wishing I had participated.
The only thing I thought could have been developed more (I should've posted
) was the viewpoint that completing a list like the ADK 46 compells a person to really get to know, love and respect an area in a way he or she wouldn't, couldn't otherwise.
A really interesting point was if someone asks/bugs you about going out and climbing 30 or 40 mountains a year ask them what they think of playing 40 hockey games a year or visiting a gym 3 times a week for a year.
It could easily have been twice the length and I would have enjoyed it even more.
Great job MEO
I remember the thread Meo started on the subject got lots of replies and views and reading the article I was wishing I had participated.
The only thing I thought could have been developed more (I should've posted
) was the viewpoint that completing a list like the ADK 46 compells a person to really get to know, love and respect an area in a way he or she wouldn't, couldn't otherwise.A really interesting point was if someone asks/bugs you about going out and climbing 30 or 40 mountains a year ask them what they think of playing 40 hockey games a year or visiting a gym 3 times a week for a year.
It could easily have been twice the length and I would have enjoyed it even more.
Great job MEO
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Thanks Neil. By the way, there is a quote from the Sanfaçon brothers about discovering an area in a way one wouldn't, couldn't otherwise, and a few lines about loving and respecting that place (with trailwork, for example). So it's there, but in 2 different (and short, I admit) parts.
Speaking of trailwork, I'm a bit mad because they cut the line where I invited Canadians to participate in trailwork
Actually, my original text was much longer than what they asked me (9 "sheets" - or 9 x 1500 signs - instead of 6...), so I was afraid that they would cut too much information. But I'm glad they only cut a few lines and some quotes, the core is still there. I had to remain as concise as possible, that's why I wasn't able to quote every reply I received here I could have write 3 more pages, but that's journalism, you always have to stop too soon, the ads need place...
Peakbagr (you're quoted, by the way ), I'll let you know as soon as the article will be online (usually around 1 or 2 months after the paper version). It's gonna be in french, though.
Speaking of trailwork, I'm a bit mad because they cut the line where I invited Canadians to participate in trailwork
Actually, my original text was much longer than what they asked me (9 "sheets" - or 9 x 1500 signs - instead of 6...), so I was afraid that they would cut too much information. But I'm glad they only cut a few lines and some quotes, the core is still there. I had to remain as concise as possible, that's why I wasn't able to quote every reply I received here
I could have write 3 more pages, but that's journalism, you always have to stop too soon, the ads need place...Peakbagr (you're quoted, by the way
), I'll let you know as soon as the article will be online (usually around 1 or 2 months after the paper version). It's gonna be in french, though.
Jean
Active member
Meo,
Great article. Very interesting to read about other people's perspective on peakbagging.
Glad to see Nathalie's comments made the cut.
For those of you who read french, here's the link:
http://www.espaces.qc.ca/espaces/html/reportages/reportages30.shtml
Great article. Very interesting to read about other people's perspective on peakbagging.
Glad to see Nathalie's comments made the cut.
For those of you who read french, here's the link:
http://www.espaces.qc.ca/espaces/html/reportages/reportages30.shtml
mavs00
New member
** electronic translation - deleted **
Could someone post a translation or a link to an english version whenever it's available. Thank You. I don't read French
Could someone post a translation or a link to an english version whenever it's available. Thank You. I don't read French
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There won't be an official English version - and they won't pay me to do it! - but I'll try to find time to translate it one day. For the next few weeks I'm very busy, but as soon as I can I'll do it.
In the meantime if someone want to do it, feel free
In the meantime if someone want to do it, feel free
Thanks, Meo, for the link to my site!
Last time I counted 'em there were only 50
Pete_Hickey
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Meo said:Speaking of trailwork, I'm a bit mad because they cut the line where I invited Canadians to participate in trailwork
write 3 more pages, but that's journalism, you always have to stop too soon, the ads need place...
BTW, a few weeks ago, when going through the border for trailwork, I was talking with a US Immigration officer about canadians working in teh US.
As most know, that is a "no-no" What surprised me, was that the restriction also applies to VOLUNTEER work! There is a chance you will displace american volunteers!
I don't want to have to fill out 27 8x10 forms explaining htat there are not enough americans who want to volunteer to help, so we need people from outside.
If canadians or quebecois(e) are going across for trailwork, just say you're going to hike.
Oh Meo... Love the word..peakbaggeuse First time I ever heard it.
Oh yeah.. nice article.
Here is a translation from Babelfish - I dont speak French so cant do it myself. As usual with Babelfish, there are problems but you can get a gist of the article from it.
As some collect the stamps, others accumulate the tops. Be like winter, good weather, bad weather, nothing stops them: 46, 67, 115 and more if affinities. A peakbagger is confessed.
The air of June is hot, wet and heavy. In front of me draws up a true wall of virginals to the tangled up branches. As much to say an immense massage glove! No path carries out to my objective: the completely wooded top of Scar Ridge, an obscure peak of New Hampshire.
I will find there no point of view worthy of this name, but rather a cylinder of plastic nailed with a tree, in which a small book is. I will affix my signature there, beside those few other the strange human ones which, like me, seek to press each 100 higher top of New England. Scar Ridge will be my 99e. To attest of my presence, a self-portrait will act as summit photograph. The dial of my GPS indicates the top to 3,4 km, right in front of, beyond the wall of virginals. Suddenly, a question, that I say, a revelation as simplistic as striking down, paralyses me and monopolizes all my thoughts: "But what I insane here? "
The fever of the tops
This desire to draw up a list of coveted tops and notching, one by one, those which one climbs, bears a name: the peakbagging (term which does not have its equivalent in the language of Bernard Voyer). Literally, that amounts "putting tops in its bag". Starting points of this collection, of the clubs lay down the rules of the game, draw up a list and sanction the success of the participants by means of escutcheons, certificates and honnor rolls (see framed).
If the practice is increasingly popular, the principle is not new: in Scotland, a list of 284 tops of more than 3 000 feet exists since 1891. One century later, the lists multiplied everywhere on planet, to give rise to certain celebrities, the such prestigious 14 tops of 8 000 meters of the Himalayas or Seven Summits, the most top of each seven continent. Non-existent still in Quebec *, the official lists closest to on our premises are in the south of the border (see framed) and attract inhabitant of Quebec more and more. Sign increasing popularity, women and children enter from now on the play.
Thus relieved here me is, I am not alone in my "madness"! But what justifies the peakbaggers to continue these lists? "It is a challenge which I launch out, an objective that I will seek to reach", answers Danny Sanfaçon, a hiker of Charlesbourg which, with his/her Karl brother, supplemented several series in the North-East of the United States "When I meet difficult climatic conditions or that my physical form is not with go, I push to the maximum, I seek to exceed me in order to reach the top." This tendency to rub with its limits seems largely divided by the followers. But why the top? Doesn't the approach get the same feeling? "Certain people measure all in results", answers on this subject Charles Leduc, of Montreal "I am a guy of results and the top makes measurable the extent of my efforts" According to him, the approach does not miss attractions, on the contrary. However, the top is an easily identifiable goal "To reach this top, it is the result, the success. To make a comparison, I see the approach like the pleasure, whereas the top, it is the orgasme ", says it, half smile.
This metaphor libertine falls by the way, because if to reach the top corresponds, for the peakbagger, with a kind of orgasme, very cosmic is, why this last can it be carried out only while systematically changing "partner"? Why climb 115 different tops and not remake 10 prettier? "the list is useful to me as a guide which will give me the directions to be followed", known as Mark Styczynski, of Albany (NY). An opinion shared by the Sanfaçon brothers: "the lists make us discover areas and tops which we never would undoubtedly have visited"
One of the regulators of Internet site Views from the signal, alias peakbagr, brings to him also an interesting nuance: "the lists give us an additional motivation when one is confronted with heat, the rain, the cold, the flies, the morning departures, the long hours of road or mud. One thus has imperishable memories of single experiments, which one would not have lived if one climbed only the tops stripped by one day sunny of summer "
Nathalie Ménard, who should become this autumn first Québécoise to officially supplement the 115 tops of 4 000 feet of the North-East, caught Front puncture only all recently the ", I followed especially my in love peakbagger. The rando was more one succession of impressions that figures for me. When I knew that I would be perhaps the first québécoise, I started to count the tops on my list! "
A worship of the ego?
The peakbagging attracts also its batch of dénigreurs, whose comments are often marked by a dissension in the field of the values, even by incomprehension. A frequent comment, raised by Peter Miller, reprocessed American psychologist and assiduous hiker ("but not peakbagger", it specifies), relates to the report/ratio maintained with nature "One should not regard the mountain as a thing, a conquest. The mountain is impressed of spirituality and it should be respected. I do not like the sufficiency of some peakbaggers avid of exploits and of recognition ", it entrusts. However, several impassioned mountain are recognized like large lovers of nature. Alain Chevrette, one montréalais which climbed 46 times the 46 tops of Adirondacks, in more of to have supplemented a plethora of various lists, takes part regularly in maintenance work of the paths, work often organized by another famous peakbagger Canadian of Ottawa "So some see the top like a target to be reached and the forest like a simple obstacle to be crossed, large good makes them", answers Charles Leduc. "If for others nature is a temple, a spiritual place, so much better also [. ] I find that curious when it is asked me why I climb 40 mountains in one year. Does one find curious somebody who plays 40 parts of hockey in one winter or somebody who goes in Nautilus three times per week during one year? "And to add: "It is false to think that all the peakbaggers are avid of recognition and exploits. All is played with oneself "
Oneself. Isn't this precisely there only one reproaches the impassioned peakbaggers? Are we in the presence of a worship of the ego which encourages to take useless risks or to neglect the family and the friends? Last March, two days of unforeseen bivouac in full blizzard, close of the top of the Lafayette mount in New Hampshire, cost the life Brenda Cox, peakbaggeuse of experiment. In spite of an execrable weather, it and her husband tried to reach the top.
"Obviously, I am always disappointed when I do not reach the top. If I feel that my equipment is adequate and that I have competences necessary, I will do everything to arrive there. But I do not hesitate to turn back when it is necessary ", known as on this subject Danny. And to add: "For me, the rando is not a trip egocentric person. On the contrary, all is centered on the meetings which I make, at the beautiful time that I live with my friends, but especially with my brother "
Charles has just had a child. As for Karl, it shares its life with Eve, who prefers the baladi with the mountain by far. Do they have the impression which them passion leads them to neglect their close relations? "I decreased the frequency of my exits much since the birth of my boy. In any event, I do not want any more very to type me eight hours of car to climb a top. I hope on the contrary to support the family exits ", answers Charles.
For Karl, the hours of road do not pose any problem "It is what I like more of the peakbagging. the voyage. When I cross the border, I smell myself elsewhere, in another country, and I take down daily newspaper "That Eve thinks about it? "That took a little time to me before I accept his many absences the weekend. But I include/understand what it can feel and I see well, with its return, with which point that made him good. And I also know that its passion does not transfer with obsession "
The diagnosis
Would obsession compulsion be there the gasoline of the peakbagging? "It is necessary to be careful in the establishment of a diagnosis of obsessional-compulsif disorder", advances the psychologist Richard Locas. "It is necessary to know to trace the line between passion and obsession, the eccentric and the compulsif one. If the person loses the contact with the reality or the control of itself, there is a danger. If, on its return of excursion, it suffers and saw a severe lack which prevents it from functioning, if its activity becomes a necessary loophole which harms its personal relations and becomes more harmful than beneficial, then one can approach obsession compulsion. But I do not believe that there is more case in the sportsmen than in the company as a General "
Thus reassured here me is! As Bertrand Côté said it to me, a peakbagger sherbrookois: "If they were not lists, I will never have drunk a coffee bio in the small village funky of Jamaica to Vermont, nor lived the most beautiful voyage father-wire with the Baxter park, where I realized that my 16 year old son was not Here any more one little boy" who summarizes all! When I reconsider at all the good times that I lived in mountain during 10 last years, with all the friendly bonds which I wove, at the community of the peakbaggers where everyone ends up knowing itself and appreciating themselves, by despizing linguistic and cultural barriers, I want only one: to sink in the massage glove which sets up in front of me and to find this famous plastic cylinder at the top of Scar Ridge. I am in a hurry to read there the messages left by Karl, Danny, Nathalie, Bertrand, Liza, John, Tim and the others.
As some collect the stamps, others accumulate the tops. Be like winter, good weather, bad weather, nothing stops them: 46, 67, 115 and more if affinities. A peakbagger is confessed.
The air of June is hot, wet and heavy. In front of me draws up a true wall of virginals to the tangled up branches. As much to say an immense massage glove! No path carries out to my objective: the completely wooded top of Scar Ridge, an obscure peak of New Hampshire.
I will find there no point of view worthy of this name, but rather a cylinder of plastic nailed with a tree, in which a small book is. I will affix my signature there, beside those few other the strange human ones which, like me, seek to press each 100 higher top of New England. Scar Ridge will be my 99e. To attest of my presence, a self-portrait will act as summit photograph. The dial of my GPS indicates the top to 3,4 km, right in front of, beyond the wall of virginals. Suddenly, a question, that I say, a revelation as simplistic as striking down, paralyses me and monopolizes all my thoughts: "But what I insane here? "
The fever of the tops
This desire to draw up a list of coveted tops and notching, one by one, those which one climbs, bears a name: the peakbagging (term which does not have its equivalent in the language of Bernard Voyer). Literally, that amounts "putting tops in its bag". Starting points of this collection, of the clubs lay down the rules of the game, draw up a list and sanction the success of the participants by means of escutcheons, certificates and honnor rolls (see framed).
If the practice is increasingly popular, the principle is not new: in Scotland, a list of 284 tops of more than 3 000 feet exists since 1891. One century later, the lists multiplied everywhere on planet, to give rise to certain celebrities, the such prestigious 14 tops of 8 000 meters of the Himalayas or Seven Summits, the most top of each seven continent. Non-existent still in Quebec *, the official lists closest to on our premises are in the south of the border (see framed) and attract inhabitant of Quebec more and more. Sign increasing popularity, women and children enter from now on the play.
Thus relieved here me is, I am not alone in my "madness"! But what justifies the peakbaggers to continue these lists? "It is a challenge which I launch out, an objective that I will seek to reach", answers Danny Sanfaçon, a hiker of Charlesbourg which, with his/her Karl brother, supplemented several series in the North-East of the United States "When I meet difficult climatic conditions or that my physical form is not with go, I push to the maximum, I seek to exceed me in order to reach the top." This tendency to rub with its limits seems largely divided by the followers. But why the top? Doesn't the approach get the same feeling? "Certain people measure all in results", answers on this subject Charles Leduc, of Montreal "I am a guy of results and the top makes measurable the extent of my efforts" According to him, the approach does not miss attractions, on the contrary. However, the top is an easily identifiable goal "To reach this top, it is the result, the success. To make a comparison, I see the approach like the pleasure, whereas the top, it is the orgasme ", says it, half smile.
This metaphor libertine falls by the way, because if to reach the top corresponds, for the peakbagger, with a kind of orgasme, very cosmic is, why this last can it be carried out only while systematically changing "partner"? Why climb 115 different tops and not remake 10 prettier? "the list is useful to me as a guide which will give me the directions to be followed", known as Mark Styczynski, of Albany (NY). An opinion shared by the Sanfaçon brothers: "the lists make us discover areas and tops which we never would undoubtedly have visited"
One of the regulators of Internet site Views from the signal, alias peakbagr, brings to him also an interesting nuance: "the lists give us an additional motivation when one is confronted with heat, the rain, the cold, the flies, the morning departures, the long hours of road or mud. One thus has imperishable memories of single experiments, which one would not have lived if one climbed only the tops stripped by one day sunny of summer "
Nathalie Ménard, who should become this autumn first Québécoise to officially supplement the 115 tops of 4 000 feet of the North-East, caught Front puncture only all recently the ", I followed especially my in love peakbagger. The rando was more one succession of impressions that figures for me. When I knew that I would be perhaps the first québécoise, I started to count the tops on my list! "
A worship of the ego?
The peakbagging attracts also its batch of dénigreurs, whose comments are often marked by a dissension in the field of the values, even by incomprehension. A frequent comment, raised by Peter Miller, reprocessed American psychologist and assiduous hiker ("but not peakbagger", it specifies), relates to the report/ratio maintained with nature "One should not regard the mountain as a thing, a conquest. The mountain is impressed of spirituality and it should be respected. I do not like the sufficiency of some peakbaggers avid of exploits and of recognition ", it entrusts. However, several impassioned mountain are recognized like large lovers of nature. Alain Chevrette, one montréalais which climbed 46 times the 46 tops of Adirondacks, in more of to have supplemented a plethora of various lists, takes part regularly in maintenance work of the paths, work often organized by another famous peakbagger Canadian of Ottawa "So some see the top like a target to be reached and the forest like a simple obstacle to be crossed, large good makes them", answers Charles Leduc. "If for others nature is a temple, a spiritual place, so much better also [. ] I find that curious when it is asked me why I climb 40 mountains in one year. Does one find curious somebody who plays 40 parts of hockey in one winter or somebody who goes in Nautilus three times per week during one year? "And to add: "It is false to think that all the peakbaggers are avid of recognition and exploits. All is played with oneself "
Oneself. Isn't this precisely there only one reproaches the impassioned peakbaggers? Are we in the presence of a worship of the ego which encourages to take useless risks or to neglect the family and the friends? Last March, two days of unforeseen bivouac in full blizzard, close of the top of the Lafayette mount in New Hampshire, cost the life Brenda Cox, peakbaggeuse of experiment. In spite of an execrable weather, it and her husband tried to reach the top.
"Obviously, I am always disappointed when I do not reach the top. If I feel that my equipment is adequate and that I have competences necessary, I will do everything to arrive there. But I do not hesitate to turn back when it is necessary ", known as on this subject Danny. And to add: "For me, the rando is not a trip egocentric person. On the contrary, all is centered on the meetings which I make, at the beautiful time that I live with my friends, but especially with my brother "
Charles has just had a child. As for Karl, it shares its life with Eve, who prefers the baladi with the mountain by far. Do they have the impression which them passion leads them to neglect their close relations? "I decreased the frequency of my exits much since the birth of my boy. In any event, I do not want any more very to type me eight hours of car to climb a top. I hope on the contrary to support the family exits ", answers Charles.
For Karl, the hours of road do not pose any problem "It is what I like more of the peakbagging. the voyage. When I cross the border, I smell myself elsewhere, in another country, and I take down daily newspaper "That Eve thinks about it? "That took a little time to me before I accept his many absences the weekend. But I include/understand what it can feel and I see well, with its return, with which point that made him good. And I also know that its passion does not transfer with obsession "
The diagnosis
Would obsession compulsion be there the gasoline of the peakbagging? "It is necessary to be careful in the establishment of a diagnosis of obsessional-compulsif disorder", advances the psychologist Richard Locas. "It is necessary to know to trace the line between passion and obsession, the eccentric and the compulsif one. If the person loses the contact with the reality or the control of itself, there is a danger. If, on its return of excursion, it suffers and saw a severe lack which prevents it from functioning, if its activity becomes a necessary loophole which harms its personal relations and becomes more harmful than beneficial, then one can approach obsession compulsion. But I do not believe that there is more case in the sportsmen than in the company as a General "
Thus reassured here me is! As Bertrand Côté said it to me, a peakbagger sherbrookois: "If they were not lists, I will never have drunk a coffee bio in the small village funky of Jamaica to Vermont, nor lived the most beautiful voyage father-wire with the Baxter park, where I realized that my 16 year old son was not Here any more one little boy" who summarizes all! When I reconsider at all the good times that I lived in mountain during 10 last years, with all the friendly bonds which I wove, at the community of the peakbaggers where everyone ends up knowing itself and appreciating themselves, by despizing linguistic and cultural barriers, I want only one: to sink in the massage glove which sets up in front of me and to find this famous plastic cylinder at the top of Scar Ridge. I am in a hurry to read there the messages left by Karl, Danny, Nathalie, Bertrand, Liza, John, Tim and the others.
mavs00
New member
dundare,
See my post above, I posted a electronic translation (similar to yours), and got a nastygram from another forum member. The electronic translation apparently does not come close and alters the article to a great degree (I've no idea if it does or not, so I deleted it).
Like you (and I gather the majority of the forum), I do not speak or read french, but am very much interested in reading the finished product too.
I'm quite sure MEO will find the time eventually, as he has stated, given that he freely asked (in English) the entire forum for input and was promptly provided with much valuable and quote-worthy material from a wide variety of multiple lanquage deprived community members
PEACE
See my post above, I posted a electronic translation (similar to yours), and got a nastygram from another forum member. The electronic translation apparently does not come close and alters the article to a great degree (I've no idea if it does or not, so I deleted it).
Like you (and I gather the majority of the forum), I do not speak or read french, but am very much interested in reading the finished product too.
I'm quite sure MEO will find the time eventually, as he has stated, given that he freely asked (in English) the entire forum for input and was promptly provided with much valuable and quote-worthy material from a wide variety of multiple lanquage deprived community members
PEACE
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Oh boy, Dundare you made my day! I laughed to tears, so loud that I just woke up my girlfriend!
Don't erase it, actually it's not that bad, but there are some translation gems:
1- Did you know you were on ViewsfromtheSignal.com?
2- "Nathalie Ménard, who should become this autumn first Québécoise (...), caught Front puncture only all recently". You should read "caught the fever"...
3- Peter Miller is retired, not reprocessed!
4- My favorite: "When I cross the border, I smell myself elsewhere, in another country, and I take down daily newspaper". You should read "I FEEL myself elsewhere, and I "disconnect" (not even sure it's the right word) from everyday life"
5- Bertrand (Ridgerunner) did a "father-wire trip with the Baxter park" Obviously, fatherhood can be strange Actually he did a father and son trip IN Baxter park.
6- Being a general is a tough job, be warned: "But I do not believe that there is more case in the sportsmen than in the company as a General". You should read "than in society in general".
And so on...
But "as a general", I think you'll understand most of the article with this not-that-bad translation.
BTW, Tim, your own translation was deleted before I had the chance to read it. Was it close to Dundare's one? If so, it was not that bad. Actually most of it is close enough to be understandable. Except for some hilarious moments, the rest lacks only in quality. Even my own translation wouldn't reach what I can do in french (I would need a professional translator for that, or someone perfectly bilingual).
When I'll find some free time, I'll start from the automatic translation and correct the worst parts, that way it's gonna get a little closer to the original.
Don't erase it, actually it's not that bad, but there are some translation gems:
1- Did you know you were on ViewsfromtheSignal.com?
2- "Nathalie Ménard, who should become this autumn first Québécoise (...), caught Front puncture only all recently". You should read "caught the fever"...
3- Peter Miller is retired, not reprocessed!
4- My favorite: "When I cross the border, I smell myself elsewhere, in another country, and I take down daily newspaper". You should read "I FEEL myself elsewhere, and I "disconnect" (not even sure it's the right word) from everyday life"
5- Bertrand (Ridgerunner) did a "father-wire trip with the Baxter park"
Obviously, fatherhood can be strange Actually he did a father and son trip IN Baxter park.6- Being a general is a tough job, be warned: "But I do not believe that there is more case in the sportsmen than in the company as a General". You should read "than in society in general".
And so on...
But "as a general", I think you'll understand most of the article with this not-that-bad translation.
BTW, Tim, your own translation was deleted before I had the chance to read it. Was it close to Dundare's one? If so, it was not that bad. Actually most of it is close enough to be understandable. Except for some hilarious moments, the rest lacks only in quality. Even my own translation wouldn't reach what I can do in french (I would need a professional translator for that, or someone perfectly bilingual).
When I'll find some free time, I'll start from the automatic translation and correct the worst parts, that way it's gonna get a little closer to the original.
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mavs00
New member
Meo said:
Yes, I did notice (the mention), thanks.
My translation was pretty similar I think. I only went by what I was told (somewhat more forcefully than needed) and deleted it. Direct translations like this are tough I know.
If your giving the official Author's okay to use this loose translation, than I'm cool with that. I'll read it as is and ignore the goofy stuff. I can get the gist of it from that.
Seems like a great article, I only wish I paid more attention back in french class
, so I could read it the way it's supposed to be read.
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Ridgerunner
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Good job
Meo ! Fun to read too.
Meo ! Fun to read too.
Not That You Are All Here
It is time for a Montreal Chapter of the ADK.
I have sent out a few invitations but no luck so far.
My wife has translated The ADK brochure and we have one sponsor to get it printed.
Any suggestions on how to get 25 serious members?
It is time for a Montreal Chapter of the ADK.
I have sent out a few invitations but no luck so far.
My wife has translated The ADK brochure and we have one sponsor to get it printed.
Any suggestions on how to get 25 serious members?
