Petition to change the name of Mt Washington

[peakbagger]

No contenders for nuking........... yet ; )

 

[maineguy]

You are making my point. If the USN wishes to recognize a former president or a famous state geologist, then use their full names, such as USS William McKinley or USS Josiah Whitney, rather than the names of mountains, which seems dumb to me.

Those ships are named for the mountain, not the president.

 

[Darby Field]

Agiocochook doesn't exactly roll off your tongue. Just from a tourist point of view, the fame and reputation Washington has earned cannot just be wiped away in a name change. This will not happen.

How about Darby Field? Only three syllables, and it certainly rolls off the lips easier than Agiocochook.

 

[sierra]

How about Darby Field? Only three syllables, and it certainly rolls off the lips easier than Agiocochook.

While it certainly rolls of the lips a bit easier, Darby Field was guided by the local Native Americans, so I'm afraid, they have a slightly better claim to the naming rights. Not that I endorse a name change. Nice try though.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

Those ships are named for the mountain, not the president.

So, the name of the USS McKinley should be changed to the USS Denali?

 

[skiguy]

So, the name of the USS McKinley should be changed to the USN Denali?

USN? Whoops….

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

USN? Whoops….

Yup, a really embarrassing typo that I will need to deal with for the rest of my life. Will fix immediately.

 

[B the Hiker]

Put “history” into two categories:
A) What happened
B) Its meaning

When, say, southern locales put up statues of Confederate leaders after the Civil War, those statues had a meaning to the leaders at the time.

Those statues were <<symbols>> imbued with meaning.

Now today, the polity has to ask whether we still want those symbols. We also need to ask what meaning they convey today—and we need to acknowledge that there is no “we”; that is, different members of society may see symbols differently.

Again, I encourage people to listen to The Dirtbag Diaries episode Two Mountains” (here is a better link)

If the goal is to rename to a Native name, was there agreement as to the name at the time Westerners renamed them mountain? Does the Western name still reflect values the polity holds today?

Denali was not controversial. The locals never called it anything but Denali. The renaming was done by outsiders for reasons that were purely political and colonial.

Mt. Washington? Reasonable people can discuss. Renaming or not doesn’t strike me as obvious one way or the other.

Brian

P.s. Do you see how a ship is different? There was never a ship called Denali that was renamed MicKinkey for colonial purposes.

 

[skiguy]

It's just the opposite, the naming of mountains, buildings, highways, sculptures, et cetera, has long been a tool to erase the past. Frick, Sackler, Rockefeller, Vanderbilt, Carnegie, Koch, Wilson, Lee, Davis, Jefferson, Washington, et cetera—some have acted worse than others, but all have used or been the beneficiary of edifices that have and in some cases continue to have a sanitizing effect on their legacy.

The goal of renaming such monuments is primarily twofold: 1) End the whitewashing, 2) recognize the unsavory aspects of these historical figures and reëvalute their legacy.

Now, do I think that Mt. Washington should be renamed? No. Was Washington a slave-owner? Yes. Is that problematic? Yes. Has his legacy been sanitized. Yes. Do some renaming efforts go too far? Probably.

https://www.mountvernon.org/george-...80s and 1790s,abolition in the United States.

 

[TomK]

So, the name of the USS McKinley should be changed to the USS Denali?

A quick search revealed the existance of a "USS Mount McKinley", but I found no reference to any "USS Mckinley". Of course, there might be one, and I just missed it. But it would appear that at least one ship was named for the mountain, not for the president for which the mountain at one time was named.

TomK

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

A quick search revealed the existance of a "USS Mount McKinley", but I found no reference to any "USS Mckinley". Of course, there might be one, and I just missed it. But it would appear that at least one ship was named for the mountain, not for the president for which the mountain at one time was named.

TomK

I am sure that the post by maineguy is correct. But, my opinion is that naming boats after mountains is dumb, as would be naming mountains after boats.

 

[peakbagger]

If someone wants an alternative viewpoint of George Washington, find a version of the PBS American Experience show about George Washington. I think PBS only showed it once as most people dont want their hero's to be "real" and this show has quite a few "warts" on the founding fathers legacy. If you look at the reviews of the show, they are not great but the vast majority are poor as the folks didnt want to know the truth.

 

[skiguy]

I am sure that the post by maineguy is correct. But, my opinion is that naming boats after mountains is dumb, as would be naming mountains after boats.

This naming of the boats after mountains is a bit confusing for some. Especially the folks coming up from the flat lands. As I’ve mentioned here before while I was working for a local outfitter we had one come in and asked how long it took for the boat to get to the top.

 

[maineguy]

I am sure that the post by maineguy is correct. But, my opinion is that naming boats after mountains is dumb, as would be naming mountains after boats.

Maybe it is...but it's the Navy way. I spent 24 years in uniform and understand that they are very tradition oriented. Attached is a link to Navy ship naming conventions...past and present. Note that numerous ship naming conventions deal with Native American Tribes (fleet tugs) as well as river's with Native American names (oilers). And, most recently, the Navy has changed the name of a few ships named for battles of the Civil War won by confederates. Now THAT is stupid.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/United_States_ship_naming_conventions

 

[NH2112]

I am sure that the post by maineguy is correct. But, my opinion is that naming boats after mountains is dumb, as would be naming mountains after boats.

How about an LHA named “USS Mount Suribachi”? I’m sure there’s a story or reason why ships are named what they are.

As far as renaming goes, at what point do we stop? If we can rename a mountain for what the local pre-white-guy inhabitants called it (which I have no problem with, I think Denali and Agiocochook sound much better anyway) then what about cities built where those same locals lived?

 

[maineguy]

Put “history” into two categories:
A) What happened
B) Its meaning

When, say, southern locales put up statues of Confederate leaders after the Civil War, those statues had a meaning to the leaders at the time.

Those statues were <<symbols>> imbued with meaning.

Now today, the polity has to ask whether we still want those symbols. We also need to ask what meaning they convey today—and we need to acknowledge that there is no “we”; that is, different members of society may see symbols differently.

Again, I encourage people to listen to The Dirtbag Diaries episode Two Mountains” (here is a better link)

If the goal is to rename to a Native name, was there agreement as to the name at the time Westerners renamed them mountain? Does the Western name still reflect values the polity holds today?

Denali was not controversial. The locals never called it anything but Denali. The renaming was done by outsiders for reasons that were purely political and colonial.

Mt. Washington? Reasonable people can discuss. Renaming or not doesn’t strike me as obvious one way or the other.

Brian

P.s. Do you see how a ship is different? There was never a ship called Denali that was renamed MicKinkey for colonial purposes.

When are they going to petition to change the name of Middletown back to Mattabeseck (it's original Indian name). According to the city website, it was originally incorporated as Mattabeseck and a few years later changed to Middletown.

 

[SpencerVT]

If you rename Mount Washington for the philosophy proposed you have to rename them all - Lincoln, Jefferson, Pierce, Adams, Madison, Monroe etc.....etc....etc....Basically every mountain, feature, town and place name of a non-native person who lived before like the year 2008. It will be a lot of renaming.
And a lot of expense to change zillions of maps and signs.
And we can do that, but we just have to know and accept that that is what's going to happen - if we rename Washington, it will logically follow to renaming all of them.

Personally, I won't be happy until there is a Chris Farley and John Belushi Mountain somewhere, but that is a different story.....

 

[skiguy]

If you rename Mount Washington for the philosophy proposed you have to rename them all - Lincoln, Jefferson, Pierce, Adams, Madison, Monroe etc.....etc....etc....Basically every mountain, feature, town and place name of a non-native person who lived before like the year 2008. It will be a lot of renaming.
And a lot of expense to change zillions of maps and signs.
And we can do that, but we just have to know and accept that that is what's going to happen - if we rename Washington, it will logically follow to renaming all of them.

Personally, I won't be happy until there is a Chris Farley and John Belushi Mountain somewhere, but that is a different story.....

What about Bill Murray and Dan Aykroyd? You could then save some administrative time and rename a whole range at once. Think of it. "The SNL Range". Now that rolls off your tongue nicely!

 

[Hachi]

I don't quote a lot of television but the Yellowstone "John Dutton" character said "Every civilization in this world is built on top of the one they conquered. You go to Rome or Jerusalem or Paris, France, and it's cities stacked on top of towns, stacked on top of villages, stacked on top of one man's house built on top of one man's cave." (Or teepee as it may be)

There is also, "to the winner goes the spoils"

Ain't sayin' it's right.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

This naming of the boats after mountains is a bit confusing for some. Especially the folks coming up from the flat lands. As I’ve mentioned here before while I was working for a local outfitter we had one come in and asked how long it took for the boat to get to the top.

Again, making my point.