Post Holes vs. Snowshoe Tracks

[peakbagger]

So what does a hiker do when they posthole with snowshoes?

I and couple of others got caught at Nancy Pond one day after barebooting Bemis and Nancy. We put on snowshoes at the Pond but by the time we down off the steep section I started postholing with snowshoes and soon the other lighter members of the party were doing so. Four plus feet of spring snow and no apparent bottom. It took us 2 hours to go less than 2 miles. I was beat worse than a 20 mile hike. Another reason why I am real careful with April hikes.

 

[alexmtn]

So what does a hiker do when they posthole with snowshoes?

I and couple of others got caught at Nancy Pond one day after barebooting Bemis and Nancy. We put on snowshoes at the Pond but by the time we down off the steep section I started postholing with snowshoes and soon the other lighter members of the party were doing so. Four plus feet of spring snow and no apparent bottom. It took us 2 hours to go less than 2 miles. I was beat worse than a 20 mile hike. Another reason why I am real careful with April hikes.

That's almost 1mph -- for the conditions you describe, that's great time -- i'm guessing you had some help, and/or the distance number includes a return through your tracks the way you came.

I can also fondly reminisce about similar moments in my past. The one I remember most happened in March at the foot of the N.Brother summit cone. We were trudging through 18" of powder atop a base whose crust was breaking with every 5th snowshoe step or so. Suddenly, without any warning, down I went -- but into a foot of water. We were evidently over a wet sag in that part of the col. I can be fond about it at this point, but wasn't feeling particularly fond at the time.

Alex

 

[summitseeker]

My first solo, winter ascent of Moriah was a similar story. I was wading through a sea of powder and found some muddy surprises along the way (I assume if was near the bog bridge area, but I truly cannot recall). It took me well over 8 hours to get back to the car and I felt very lucky to have made a successful attempt.

I don't think I have an answer for what one does when they post hole with snowshoes, 'keep going' is what I would tell myself. All joking aside it cannot be helped, right? I do have "floats" for my MSRs, but I have yet to use them in such a scenario. They are sadly sitting deep in my closet.

A massive, deep footprint (semi-posthole?) created by a snowshoe, in my opinion, does not pose the same safety risk as a well hidden, icy footprint that is over a foot deep. Those are the post holes I worry about. This begs the question, "but aren't you already wearing snowshoes?". Yes, if the snow is deep enough but there are times when there is just enough powder or loose clumps of snow to hide these knee and ankle busters. With minimal unpacked snow above a base that can support my weight I leave the snowshoes on my pack.

Blasphemy right before Christmas, I know. I am not as radical as the Furher, so there will be times I actually opt not to wear, dare I say it?, snowshoes. There, I said it

Happy Holidays All,

Z

 

[Raven]

So what does a hiker do when they posthole with snowshoes?

I and couple of others got caught at Nancy Pond one day after barebooting Bemis and Nancy. We put on snowshoes at the Pond but by the time we down off the steep section I started postholing with snowshoes and soon the other lighter members of the party were doing so. Four plus feet of spring snow and no apparent bottom. It took us 2 hours to go less than 2 miles. I was beat worse than a 20 mile hike. Another reason why I am real careful with April hikes.

I hiked Nancy in similar spring conditions. There was a light rain much of the day to add to the grief. On top of it, my partner and I tramped around the summit falling into multiple spruce traps before finally bailing on finding a canister. I found it on a subsequent and much easier day to hike.

I like to find that holy grail of a trail that has been broken out by a 20+ group the day before a good light melt and solid freeze. Record-breaking times on those days, seemingly anyway. I snowshoe more than barefoot or microspike, but it all depends on daily conditions. Sometimes, an early start has allowed bare booting on the ascent only to need shoes on the descent as temps warm up. I find them worth carrying on almost all winter hikes with snow.

 

[skiguy]

Blasphemy right before Christmas, I know. I am not as radical as the Furher, so there will be times I actually opt not to wear, dare I say it?, snowshoes. There, I said it



Z

Ouch!...Some little boy or girl just missed out on getting that Kitten they really wanted from Santa this year.

 

[peakbagger]

When I first starting winter 4Ks in earnest 23 years ago, the AMC still published their trips in the magazine. Being local, we would follow them on the day after as the inevitably when ton Saturday. Generally AMC groups of the era were obsessive at wearing snowshoes and the groups were large. Give it a sunny afternoon and a cold overnight and the track the next day was like a sidewalk.

 

[Tim Seaver]

"A massive, deep footprint (semi-posthole?) created by a snowshoe, in my opinion, does not pose the same safety risk as a well hidden, icy footprint that is over a foot deep."

Yes, it can actually be WORSE - because under certain thaw conditions, the snowshoes make huge holes that are closely spaced, leaving nowhere else to step except the tiny ridges between holes.

The worst post-holed trail I ever hiked was in the ADK High Peaks, where someone had worn huge snowshoes during a major thaw, making the trail ridiculously dangerous when it refroze. Holes over a foot deep, 30 inches x 9 inches, closely spaced. There would have been FAR less damage if they would have simply bare-booted, as they were bottoming out anyway.

But they "followed the rules", and that's what matters.

 

[skiguy]

But they "followed the rules", and that's what matters.

...or they could of stayed home and made a nice Snowman instead.

 

[1SlowHiker]

Snowshoe Ethics question: Two weeks ago on a Monday I made a failed attempt at Baldpate. I carried snowshoes but wore micro spikes the whole way. The first part of the trail was well broken out by bare-booters just going up to the lean-to. The next section had only a few snowshoe tracks in 12"-18" of snow. I should have put my shoes on there but was able to continue without post holing. Then it got steep and deep the tracks turned around. The rest of the way up to the west peak was very light powdery snow in 2-3 ft drifts across the trail. My thinking was that if I had put on my shoes I would not have enough floatation in this light snow and it would have been much harder to continue (probably impossible for me). I pushed through without snowshoes making a path up to the west peak. On the east side of the peak the drifts where waist deep after 200 feet of descent and I turned around, reluctantly leaving my last Maine NEHH close in site. Ethically should I have tried to continue on with snowshoes or turn around rather than trudging through the deep powder snow which would probably get blown back in on a trail that doesn't seem to get much winter use. (no tracks after a nice weekend with no recent snow)

 

[alexmtn]

Snowshoe Ethics question: Two weeks ago on a Monday I made a failed attempt at Baldpate. I carried snowshoes but wore micro spikes the whole way. The first part of the trail was well broken out by bare-booters just going up to the lean-to. The next section had only a few snowshoe tracks in 12"-18" of snow. I should have put my shoes on there but was able to continue without post holing. Then it got steep and deep the tracks turned around. The rest of the way up to the west peak was very light powdery snow in 2-3 ft drifts across the trail. My thinking was that if I had put on my shoes I would not have enough floatation in this light snow and it would have been much harder to continue (probably impossible for me). I pushed through without snowshoes making a path up to the west peak. On the east side of the peak the drifts where waist deep after 200 feet of descent and I turned around, reluctantly leaving my last Maine NEHH close in site. Ethically should I have tried to continue on with snowshoes or turn around rather than trudging through the deep powder snow which would probably get blown back in on a trail that doesn't seem to get much winter use. (no tracks after a nice weekend with no recent snow)

M2C: If we're talking about fresh powder, continue ascending via whichever means is most comfortable for you. Then, on descent, pretty things up with your snowshoes - likely a combination of sliding and plunge stepping.

Alex

 

[skiguy]

Ethically should I have tried to continue on with snowshoes or turn around rather than trudging through the deep powder snow which would probably get blown back in on a trail that doesn't seem to get much winter use. (no tracks after a nice weekend with no recent snow)

Here in lies the conundrum IMO. Should I or shouldn't I. Let's just say all your tracks did get blown back in that would be one scenario. Second scenario would be it get's warm and even possibly rains in the coming days after your hike.

 

[Raven]

Ethically should I have tried to continue on with snowshoes or turn around rather than trudging through the deep powder snow which would probably get blown back in on a trail that doesn't seem to get much winter use. (no tracks after a nice weekend with no recent snow)

The short answer is there are no collective ethics. What makes sense generally is to do what uses the least energy as that is often what is appropriate for the trail. Post holing takes energy. If snowshoes are necessary, it is often obvious (although surprisingly not to all).

Alex's answer makes a lot of sense. If snow is soft, smooth it out on the descent with snowshoes. I often take this approach when conditions call for it.

 

[dug]

I like to find that holy grail of a trail that has been broken out by a 20+ group the day before a good light melt and solid freeze. Record-breaking times on those days, seemingly anyway. I snowshoe more than barefoot or microspike, but it all depends on daily conditions. Sometimes, an early start has allowed bare booting on the ascent only to need shoes on the descent as temps warm up. I find them worth carrying on almost all winter hikes with snow.

They are common enough. We hiked up Jackson one February and my brother wore sneakers. It was literally like walking on a sidewalk.

 

[skiguy]

M2C: If we're talking about fresh powder, continue ascending via whichever means is most comfortable for you. Then, on descent, pretty things up with your snowshoes - likely a combination of sliding and plunge stepping.

Alex

Simon is definitely the guy most of us should hit the trail with. No complaints afterwards here. http://tomodachi.us/2013/12/27/artist-uses-snowshoes-to-create-giant-pieces/

 

[alexmtn]

Simon is definitely the guy most of us should hit the trail with. No complaints afterwards here. http://tomodachi.us/2013/12/27/artist-uses-snowshoes-to-create-giant-pieces/

On my hikes, I'm fine with a bio break or two and perhaps some rose smelling and picture taking -- but jeez, really??

Beautiful though!

Alex

 

[MichaelJ]

I expect Jeremy will be along in a moment.

Nope, the video was not Jeremy's work; however, it was indeed created by a VFTT member. You can figure it out from the YouTube channel.

 

[Mike P.]

Whether I put on snowshoes or spikes depends on depth, effort and how many times I post hole. So far, I've been south of Mt. Sunapee and there has not been enough snow. Generally about 12" is what I need to consider snowshoes. If the trail is all packed, I may opt to bare boot and until I go in a few times to the knee, I'm not opting to wear extra weight on my feet for four holes in five or six miles.

I've ranted before so I'll see if I can stay out of it this time.....

 

[skiguy]

If the trail is all packed, I may opt to bare boot and until I go in a few times to the knee, I'm not opting to wear extra weight on my feet for four holes in five or six miles.

Well put Mike! http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/...g/one-pound-off-feet-five-pounds-off-back.htm

 

[Becca M]

First, if we *EVER* get some actual pow Then lay down a nice skin track - will go over random postholes pretty nicely AND fit in a snowshoe track.

 

[summitseeker]

Well put Mike! http://adventure.howstuffworks.com/...g/one-pound-off-feet-five-pounds-off-back.htm

I get that, 100%. No one wants to carry extra weight if they do not need to. I would be curious how much energy is lost sinking into snow rather than walking over it. Even with heavy waterproof boots and snowshoes I, personally, still prefer to walk on top of snow. I truly don't enjoy sinking down even 4 - 6 inches. That's my own issue, not a reason for others to wear snowshoes when they aren't truly necessary.

Thanks to everyone who contributed to this thread,

Z