Proposal to have NY section of VFTT?

[Grumpy]

Respectful Dissent

I must dissent from Peakbagr’s commentary.

We already have seen the result of fragmentation and splintering. I don’t believe further fragmentation of the Northeastern US hiking community (which includes plenty of our Canadian neighbors) will improve things.

The only thing that will reverse the trend of decline in VFTT posts focused on New York is if those people who are interested in NY will post here, where there never has been lack of opportunity and always has been ample opportunity to do so. It is difficult for me to believe that establishing a separate NY – or non-New England -- forum on VFTT would have much positive effect in that direction.

G.

 

[bikehikeskifish]

For myself, I only use New Posts (and Search), and scan the threads for ones of interest. I did subscribe to the Exposure - Nature Photography forum (but I don't subscribe to the Kayaking forum.) I much prefer the news style, or RSS, where the readers allow you to flag threads or articles of interest, so you can highlight / mask stuff you do / don't care about (for example, the NY Beer Blast for Alpinista didn't interest me, but went on for a while, and I had to skip over it, rather than 'kill'ing it -- no offense, Lisa.) The best thing, in my mind, is to get rid of all the forums and just have one. Then, moderators can consider only whether or not a post is appropriate, not whether it is in the right forum. The only time I care is when I start a thread.

The questions that Darren and the moderators have to ask themselves and the NYers is:

• Do we want to attract the NY crowd (I hear "yes")?
• What can we do to attract them? (I hear that they want a NY forum)
• Will attracting them with a NY forum increase their participation in other forums, thus increasing their overall value to topics of cross-cultural importance (say winter hiking--pretty sure these topics apply equally to the ADKs and Whites)? (I haven't seen an answer to this one yet)

Tim

 

[mavs00]

Some excellent points made above. You hit on exactly how most of the NY members feel about ADK and Catskill stuff getting buried. Thats one of the reasons you see a diminished participation. The registration issue isn't really a problem as the members are still there, they still check in here, just not as often and a 'why bother' attitude.

and

By saying we'd divide up VFTT into a separate Forum for each of those states would be impractical for the moderators and our members. Good points about PA and NJ as they are not part of New England. A new section, if it were approved, should probably not say NY Q&A, but "Q&A - NON NE".

Here is the reality over the last couple of years as respects NY members and posts by them. Both the quality and number of posts from these VFTT-ers is down by a huge amount. I have dozens of friends and acquaintances who go to the ADK Forum and ADKHPs. They tell me they occasionally cruise in to VFTT or never post here any more. Almost all say that VFTT is irrelevant to them as non-New England stuff is buried here. Many of them are some of the most valuable and active VFTT folks who do the majority of their hiking in the ADKs or Catskills.
And many of them have pleaded (not too strong a word) to try and get a NY-specific section of the board.

Peakbagr is one of my oldest and dearest hiking friends from here, and while we've not really discussed this situation in depth, these last two posts present a much more compelling argument for me. Much better (IMO) then his first post. I might add. The truth is, I see myself in this category.

I used to be one of the more "prolific" posters on here and over the last year, my activity has dwindled to practically nothing. In fact, until someone directed me to this thread, I don't think I've been here in a month. Don't get me wrong, I don't delude myself into thinking the quality of this board depends on my presence (it clearly does not). In fact, the overwhelming majority could care less if I come or go, but that is not my point. If enough "drift", the community suffers. The lack of specific NY stuff is glaring and pretty much is the prime reason for my "drifting".

So, when Alan posted these 2 messages, I have to say, I saw myself as someone he was talking about. Both ADKForum (and it great operators- Dick and Gary) and my forum (adkhighpeaks) have flourished and given an outlet for many folks. You may prefer one over the other, or visit both freely, but each fills a nice ADK/Catskill niche that will continue to provide for the communities we serve for years to come. I don't think anything would change that.

But, lets be honest, neither will ever be able to provide the unique diversity that you find here. My wanderings here have, over the years inspired me to hike beyond my geographic, and knowledge limitations and the membership (fellow hikers from all over the NE) has allowed me to grow as a hiker (and person I think) in immeasurable ways. People I've met (originally) from here have touched my life in ways they'll probably NEVER understand.

So yeah, while I run my own ADK board that I'm completely happy and content with, the fact remains that VFTT was (and is) my original home and there will always be a sense of loyalty to it. If Darren, Alan and Dave feel a NY section will bolster a portion of this community that they feels is lagging and needs some help. I'll support them, 100%.

To me, it not about a need for this or that (I personally don't think the NEED is tremendous), it about supporting friends and loyalty. Which despite what some may think , are very important to me.

I would like to see a TR's kept together though. Browsing them all together makes me click on reports I otherwise wouldn't.

 

[Neil]

Hey Neil, you know the best way to judge the success of a trip report is not necesssarily the posted feedback you get, but rather look at the view counter! Lets face it, I am sure many of us can only take so many "gee what a great report" posts before we go "ok, this is getting a bit annoying." BUT, if the view counter steadily ticks away.....ahhhh, then you know you have succeded!

Brian

You peaked my curiosity so I compared the last 5 TR's I posted both here and on ADKHighpeaks.

Here's the format: VFTT stats first, replies/views.

Macomb to Wyman
4/165 13/365

Little Santanoni and Couch
3/238 28/702

Northern Presis
10/520 13/291

Whiteface slides
9/476 18/434

Trap Dike
6/313 36/1098

Hmmmm, maybe there are some people over here that are still interested in New York goings-on. Now, if I post my most recent TR it will get many views just to skew the data!

 

[pudgy_groundhog]

I truly believe this forum is intended to be one big community, not just a place where you learn about your own particular interests. By segregating the information, you are segregating your viewers to their particular topics.

I think if people want NY info ONLY, then they would head over to adkforum.

People keep saying they like one big community, but then say people who want NY only info should go to another board. Isn't that fragmenting the community anyway?

I don't get the big deal. I don't really care either way, but I was very happy to find adkhighpeaks website and it's my first stop for message boards.

 

[imarchant]

My initial response was against adding another section and I still would prefer not to fragment this board. I post the ADKHighpeaks more about NY related hiking issues. But for equipment or emergencgy response/rescue related type discussions I prefer this board. I search both boards by searching "new posts", so the added section really doesn't matter to me one way or the other. It seems to me that there are a few people who feel strongly that there should be a separate section, but more people who are mildy opposed to the idea. I guess it a choice the Moderators will have to make. Thats why they are paid the big bucks.

 

[Peakbagr]

Thanks for all the comments.

To address one a few posts back. The idea is NOT to attract the NY crowd. Its to REGAIN their attention. We have hundreds of NY-based members on VFTT, perhaps many hundreds.

A point I've been trying to make is that for people whose interest is completely in New England, allow us to try this experiment. It won't affect you.
For those who are primarily interested in NE but like to read whats going on in the Catskills or ADKs, its one extra click and ONLY for Q&A, not a moving of everything. This hurts to say it, 'cause I'm loyal to VFTT, but you are probably not even aware of just how far VFTT has fallen on its NY content.


Its not making world peace, just a suggestion from someone who is involved heavily here and on the other boards. It has the potential of bringing VFTT back to where it was a few years back on NY content and quality.

 

[percious]

Perhaps the quantity/quality of NY posts has something to do with the fact that registration is considerably more difficult here than the other alternatives.

*dons flame suit*

-percious

 

[Jay H]

For new members, yes, but most of us have been "grandfathered" in and it doesn't account for the migration

Jay

 

[Papa Bear]

Thanks for all the comments.

To address one a few posts back. The idea is NOT to attract the NY crowd. Its to REGAIN their attention. We have hundreds of NY-based members on VFTT, perhaps many hundreds.

...

Assuming you do make the split here's some suggestions:

- Make sure the forum names are clear. "Q&A" has always been a very undescriptive name. Change the names of both forums after the split.
- Don't be too worried about the "third world" (CT, MA, PA etc.). Let the poster decide and they'll probably end up in the NE group. The Gunks? Does anyone go there?
- (this involves work, sorry) move all the recent NY posts from the old forum to the new NY formum to provide a "seed" for interested readers. Just doing this separation will illustrate how many posts are there that were missed due to the preponderance of NE posts.

 

[jrbren]

As one who lives on an island in a lake that divides NY and New England (NE), I am fine with the board as it is. I see lots of good posts on NY and NE and have no problems finding them. However, if there are others who feel strongly about a separate NY forum, I do not see that as a problem either. Just does not seem necessary. If anything I would like to consolidate some of the existing AMC and Adirondack forums, I enjoy reading everyones posts. Thanks to everyone who makes this board a reality in any case. Cheers - John

 

[Peakbagr]

"Perhaps the quantity/quality of NY posts has something to do with the fact that registration is considerably more difficult here than the other alternatives."

Read the thread. The NY members haven't resigned, they are just not spending time here. We're trying to get existing members to start paying attention again.

Alan

 

[dvbl]

Split 'em.

We can still be friends. We'll call ya'. Group hug.

 

[amstony]

Catskills

Darren,

It seems like you want to give it a go, so go ahead and try it.

Worst case is it doesn't work. I prefer status quo, but give it a shot.


here is a question..........I plan to start hiking the Catskills 3500 this year, so where would I look for Information? ADKForum, VFTT, etc.......?

 

[Tom Rankin]

here is a question..........I plan to start hiking the Catskills 3500 this year, so where would I look for Information? ADKForum, VFTT, etc.......?

Everywhere!

They even have their own newsgroup on Yahoo!

http://groups.yahoo.com/group/3500club

 

[Oldsmores]

Frankly, I'm amazed at the number of responses (on both sides) to what seems to be a pretty simple suggested change. I'm a member of all 3 boards, will check all three, and will deal with whatever format the moderators want to use. It's a message board for criminy's sake, not nuclear proliferation, .
Not to mention, it's free...

 

[percious]

"Perhaps the quantity/quality of NY posts has something to do with the fact that registration is considerably more difficult here than the other alternatives."

Read the thread. The NY members haven't resigned, they are just not spending time here. We're trying to get existing members to start paying attention again.

Alan

My point is that there may be an influx of new members which contribute to the growth that is seen in the NE threads which is lacking for the NY hiker who can more easily register to ADKHP or ADKForum.

This board got really stale about 1 year ago because of lack of new membership... I think that we are seeing the same thing happening in the NY section because there are easier alternatives.

-percious

 

[Peakbagr]

Oldsmores, thanks for taking the words right out of my mouth.

Amstony, Tom is right, Catskill stuff everywhere. Tom and a few others of us are climbing the Catskill100(which include the 3500ers). Drop me a note if you want to join us.

My pooch, Boo, has 35/100, but only a handful of those are 35ers. I'd be happy to get out with you, and she needs most of the 35ers anyway.
Then I can browbeat you in person about this proposal.

 

[BlackSpruce]

“The only thing that will reverse the trend of decline in VFTT posts focused on New York is if those people who are interested in NY will post here, where there never has been lack of opportunity and always has been ample opportunity to do so. It is difficult for me to believe that establishing a separate NY – or non-New England -- forum on VFTT would have much positive effect in that direction (Grumpy)”

Grumpy, of course there is no guarantee that a separate section will be busier but trying it for a few months or a year will give you the answer. You certainly know that the silent majority is just that! I can attest that Peakbagr is reflecting and acting on comments I have myself heard many times on and off the trails. To many the other forums have a much too intimate feel which obviously suits the many posting on them but keeps a larger number away.

Christine

-PS:The number of viewings isn't a real tell tale of interest as only an handful of posters going back and forth for a few days can raise it dramatically!

 

[Neil]

-PS:The number of viewings isn't a real tell tale of interest as only an handful of posters going back and forth for a few days can raise it dramatically!

Absolutely 100%. My thoughts exactly. (Great minds think alike).

The Trap Dike TR, I could have pointed out, turned into a big discussion on ADKHP about what influence a TR might have on a reader.

OK Alan. You're the moderator, you seem to want the new section, so like the Nike ad says, "just do it!" or I will jack this thread with a discussion of the history of the Canadian Constitution.