Proposed fees for Search and Rescue in NH

[David Metsky]

Moderator Note
Keep politics out of this. Do not bring political parties into the discussion here; it is not appropriate.

 

[peakbagger]

There is an article about the bill and likelyhood that it will not make it through the legislature in todays (2/18) Berlin Daily Sun http://www.berlindailysun.com/

They just implemented a new viewer and I dont know if there is a way to copy it or refer to prior editions, so it may only be readable today.

Reading through the article, It doesnt sound completely dead. I expect the crosshairs are still on the hiking community, its just that they havent figured away to implement it.

 

[Brambor]

Dav

In Germany and Austria the huts above the treeline and out of reach to safely descend are either prohibited to reserve all of their spaces ahead of time or to refuse a 'drop in' customer late in the day. They have two types of accomodations.

1. Bunkbeds (more expensive) - subject to reservation

2. MatrazzenPlatz (a mattress place) basically large interconnected platforms where everyone sleeps. - not subject to reservation

Is AMC at fault for encouraging people to go out in severe weather because they have a prepaid reservation (presumably one reason this fee is proposed for hut guests)? Should high huts be staffed by people with winter hiking experience and a locker of winter gear kept on site? (That might keep staffers who are experts in alpine botany for instance off the rolls in preparation for an event that might never occur.) Remember that this was late season when many of the regular crew had gone back to school and the staff was a mishmash. And of course it is Fish & Game not AMC with the legal responsibility for SAR. While it is unfortunate for Mr. Barr that more was not done for him, the person most responsible for his death was himself for pushing on in conditions he was not prepared for.

 

[SAR-EMT40]

In Germany and Austria the huts above the treeline and out of reach to safely descend are either prohibited to reserve all of their spaces ahead of time or to refuse a 'drop in' customer late in the day. They have two types of accomodations.


2. MatrazzenPlatz (a mattress place) basically large interconnected platforms where everyone sleeps. - not subject to reservation

As I remember this was basically a set of shelves at three feet and six feet height with a central walkway. Girls on the left, men on the right.

Never seen anything like that at the time, but I was young.

Keith

 

[Creag Nan Drochaid]

SAR insurance card, $10/life?

How many of us would pay $10 for a SAR card good for the lifetime of the person named on it, with these terms:

1) sold by the same agents as sell other F&G licenses, and other places like information centers, outdoor gear stores, etc. Actual cost $11 because the agent gets $1 as their fee.

2) the $10 goes to the SAR fund of F&G.

3) if the owner is ever rescued, the cost to the F&G fund is covered.

4) the coverage includes cases where the owner was negligent, on the grounds that nobody is perfect, conditions in the outdoors can change while you are out there, and we cannot predict or prepare for everything.

5) the coverage does NOT include cases where the owner was reckless, on the grounds that "reckless" describes cases where a reasonably prudent person would have foreseen and prevented the need for rescue.

6) In other words, the current law regarding "negligent" and "reckless" behavior remains in effect, save that cardholders are not charged if their behavior was only negligent. Non-cardholders remain liable for the costs of their rescue if their behavior was either negligent or reckless.

Let us remember that people needing SAR now are not charged unless their behavior is judged to be at least negligent if not reckless. Some money can be raised by just asking for donations, but if you want to raise any considerable amount then there has to be a benefit for the givers. Few of us go to the outdoors so perfectly equipped or so ready to turn back at the least sign of a risk that our behavior cannot be called negligent if certain unlikely things happen. We calculate the risks and follow our best judgement with the information we have at the time. This SAR insurance recognizes the uncertainty of all outdoor pursuits and rewards those with $11 and the foresight to plan ahead for the unlikely.

Creag Nan Drochaid

 

[sierra]

I take great exception to any finger pointing towards any group or individual for that matter as to "leaving someone to die". Lets get back to the basics here, while hiking has become mainstream to the point of losing its hardness almost completely by most, it is still a inherently dangerous pursuit in certain situations and the responsilbilty of anyones safety is not garranteed by anyone. That being said, many groups and or individuals would go to great lengths to save someone, myself included. Ive been involved in 2 rescues, I would do anything to help someone if at all possible, but in certain conditions, I would not. I was in the mountains hiking when the Tinkham rescue was going on, I was going to offer my help ( they proboly would have refused) but given the conditions, I never did. If you run into trouble in the mountains, there are many selfless and brave people out there willing to come to your aid, but make no mistake about it, live or die, rescued or not,when you take to the mountains, ultimately, you are responsible for your own safety. Harsh,maybe, but keep it in mind when your out there because thats the way it is in the end.

 

[walker]

How many of us would pay $10 for a SAR card good for the lifetime of the person named on it, with these terms:

1) sold by the same agents as sell other F&G licenses, and other places like information centers, outdoor gear stores, etc. Actual cost $11 because the agent gets $1 as their fee.

2) the $10 goes to the SAR fund of F&G.

3) if the owner is ever rescued, the cost to the F&G fund is covered.

4) ...

Creag Nan Drochaid

Didn't they (and we all know who "they " are )try this in the late 70's / early 80's in the White's, dealing with winter rescues. I remember something about "if you were north of a certain line ( the Kanc, I think ) and you had the card, you were safe, in not, you paid.

I can't remember, for all I know, this whole memory burp could be one of those flash backs they promised me in the 70's

Hike Free and Live....Walker

 

[RoySwkr]

SB128 was amended to impose no tax, but instead to appoint a study committee. No doubt it will pass, and we'll go through this again next year.

Didn't they (and we all know who "they " are )try this in the late 70's / early 80's in the White's, dealing with winter rescues.

After the kid got lost on Lafayette on a snowy Columbus Day, there was a public outcry to soak winter hikers. But then the tourist industry didn't want to lose customers, and got it watered down so that even the kid who started everything wouldn't have had to pay. Finally the whole thing died.