Question about Newbie Winter Hiking

[smitty77]

I think dave.m makes some good points about letting entusiasm on the Bboards become contagious and skew your sense of reality. This came into play just last week when I was shopping for my first ever pair of snowshoes. I searched out the recommendations here and went shopping. I must have read through descriptions and technical specs for over 30 models, some well out of my price range. Everytime I caught my self thinking "It's only another $60 more than my budget", I'd sit back and do a reality check. It was really tempting to get into a backcountry type of shoe, but honestly most of my shoeing needs are for lowland hiking in the woods with the dog over rolling terrain. For this, an entry level shoe should be fine. I also reminded myself that with a 3 year old at home and another on the way, I'm not likely to get away for too many exotic trips to the whites for another few seasons at least.

Smitty

 

[dreamstream]

Just offering another angle here.

I don't look at doing anything solo as more risky than in a group, the chances of falling, getting lost or socked in are much the same. In fact I would say that in some ways there is a greater danger in a group, if one person in a group slips up the whole group is in danger. Also take any group and there will be strong members and weaker members, weaker members may push too hard to keep up, middle of the pack members do dumb things to try to be alpha dog... we all know about group dynamics in the real world. Sure a group does offer a safety net should something happen, but if you are counting on that net for security, one might well be pushing the limits too far and putting others in danger.

But when you are out there alone, there is no one to impress, no one to keep up to, and only yourself to answer too. For me this knocks the legs out from under the "stay on well traveled routes" argument, if one is counting on others for rescue, bad decisions are likely being made.

So I don't think I would want to hike, paddle, ski or what ever in an informal group that I would not be OK with solo. To put it in the positive I would only attempt things in an informal group that I would do solo.

Working as a team is another thing, I would bet most if not all high peaks around the world would yet be unclimbed if it were by individual effort alone. Unfortunately it is not always easy to find yourself in a good team.

That said, it is nearly time to pack up and head off for a solo ski, should be back by midnight.

 

[dave.m]

But when you are out there alone, there is no one to impress, no one to keep up to, and only yourself to answer too. For me this knocks the legs out from under the "stay on well traveled routes" argument, if one is counting on others for rescue, bad decisions are likely being made.

Point understood and taken.

But I think this incorrectly frames the discussion as an all or nothing thing.

I see the fundemental trick to managing risk in the winter as padding or protecting the margin for error. Relying on others to appear to save your bacon on Lowes or any other high use trail is misguided. But, there is a significant increase in the margin of error on Lowes compared to say a trailless bushwack in the middle of the Dry River Wilderness.

IMO, overall risk assessment is a cumlulative thing that adds up from a combination of every decision that gets made. Often, no single thing can be identified as an all or nothing sort issue (some are). Temperature, food, clothing, route, weather, group, amount of day light and on and on the list goes.

 

[cushetunk]

there is a significant increase in the margin of error on Lowes compared to say a trailless bushwack in the middle of the Dry River Wilderness.

I agree with dave and kevin, but with some reservations.

I think that maybe another way to consider this is to paraphrase Hemingway: "Every hiker needs a built-in, shockproof bulls--- detector." When someone heads off on a solo bushwhack into the Dry River Wilderness, their detector ought to be in full force. There's very little invitation for self-delusion there.

On the other hand, if you're one of many climbing Lowe's, you start to think, well, everyone else is doing just fine. This is no big deal. Your detector is defective.

Obviously, no beginner should charge off into that bushwhack. Also, ideally, your detector is always on full alert, especially if you don't know all the red flags from the green flags. But we all know that is not the reality. Fortunately, mostly the mountain gods smile on us anyway.

Hope I'm not beating a dead horse.

 

[dave.m]

cushentuck,

quite the contrary. I think you've raised a point that has a more general application.

Namely, so-called safety tools may have the affect of increasing risk, especially when not fully understood.

One of the most obvious examples is the herd mentality as it relates to avalanche risk. People are more likely to ski lines that other people are skiing, regardless of the other known risk factors. Go to Tucks on any weekend in April to see this in spades.

Related, it is well documented that there is a positive correlation with avalanch training and the liklihood of getting killed in a slide.

Paul Petzold wrote an essay years ago noting that climbers are more likely to climb in areas of rock fall hazard when they carry a climbing helmet. Access to the helmet invites exposure to more risk.

So, I agree with you that in so far as the herd path up Lowes does invite the ill prepared for all the wrong reasons.

IMO, the key is an a priori decision to proceed. If you have already committed to going, then the safety tools can lessen risk if used correctly. But, if the tools factor into the decision to go or not to go, they can actually be working against you.

As a rule, I never use an ice axe for just this reason. I prefer to stay off of slopes where a fall could hurt or kill me.

 

[Chip]

One of the biggest dangers of winter solos, in my opinion, is a fall that leaves you immobile and unconscious. On a cold day, your survival time is really limited. Radios or cell phones are worthless. Unless the trail is busy enough that someone passes by you fairly soon, you are in deep trouble.

I really agree with this and it's my only real concern with winter solos. Solo hikes are complicated by the fact that self rescue may not be possible. Add to that Hypothermia and you've turned a fair weather inconvenience into a life threatening situation.
I have proposed here, in the past, the "wisdom" of wearing a helmet while solo hiking on all but the flattest terrain. Most responders would sooner watch Heck freeze over than be seen wearing a helmet. Oh well.
Heart attacks, drowning and head trauma are the leading causes of deaths in the great outdoors. Assuming your heart is okay and you can stay out of the water, I don't think a helmet is a bad idea when you're on your own in the woods.

 

[sardog1]

One of the biggest dangers of winter solos, in my opinion, is a fall that leaves you immobile and unconscious. On a cold day, your survival time is really limited. Radios or cell phones are worthless. Unless the trail is busy enough that someone passes by you fairly soon, you are in deep trouble. In more general terms, you probably can't afford any mistake that allows you to slip 15-25 minutes into hypothermia. Either way, you probably can't get outside help until much too late.

If you truly are convinced you are alone, you might be less likely to climb that ledge, or cross that stream on those icy rocks, or keep ascending even though you are cold and tired. When you are completely alone, with miles of snow and forest and hillside around you, it is both sublime and disconcerting. I know it keeps me on my toes.

This thread evokes something pretty deep for me. The whole reason I ever became a SAR dog handler had its origins in the scenario described above.

I have been a soloist 99.99% of the time I'm out for recreation, and winter is my favorite season. Twenty-five years ago, I had a Newfoundland dog that accompanied me on my trips. (This was back before they became media darlings for their winter prowess. ) The possibility that I might be immobile from a simple joint injury, or a fracture, or "something," led me to teach him to lie down alongside me and keep me warm. Then we made a game of finding me. Then after a while, I got to thinking about the possibility of dogs helping other people in need, and I find my calling.

The whole point of this ramble is that the winter soloist has to think hard about what happens if you cannot move from the spot where you fall down. That means that your pack, not somebody else's pack, has to have the things that will keep you alive until you are found (albeit maybe not before incurring some serious frostbite or hypothermia). And remember also that you'll often be breaking trail while carrying that pack. (Unless you really don't intend to be a soloist and just want to walk some parasitic distance behind some larger party. )

As a result, unless you're Dick Griffith (who used to ski the Brooks Range alone) or some other maniac like him, you'll be wise to limit your routes and foot placements to what you can prudently manage alone. But you still won't have to wait for your companions at the trailhead parking lot while your feet get cold.

 

[Mike P.]

AMC or ADK groups are good, you can likely find the Boston or SE Mass chapter doing something local.

That said, i started solo & still do about 1/2 my winter trips solo & 2/3's or more of my trips solo.
Starting at Blue Hills was good idea, now expand slowly: Wachusetts, Monadnock, Holyoke range,, South Taconic's Greylock are all good places to hit.

Once you do a few of those or ones like it, Mt. Pemi, Willard, Lincoln Woods, Lonesome Lake, all good choices.

 

[TomD]

Winter solo

I just got back from my first winter solo in Yosemite (okay, I confess, I'm not from around here). I didn't go very far, did make a few mistakes-inadequate tent and gloves, but was close enough, so when the weather didn't improve, I just walked out with some of my gear (I was too tired to carry it all), checked in to a local motel and came back the next day in fine weather and grabbed the rest.

On http://www.backpacking.net/bbs.html, there are some good trip reports and posts on winter camping in the winter camping forum, including trip reports on my trip and another group trip you may enjoy. The site is mostly lightweight stuff, but the winter forum is pretty active now, of course.

 

[Chip]

TomD, interesting ! How is the access in Yosemite in the winter ?
Pretty wide open ?