Question Regarding Ultra-Light Aircraft Operating in WMNF

[1HappyHiker]

This is purely a curiosity question. I have no hidden agenda, nor do I have a complaint.

While traveling on Route 302 this past Friday (14-August) with Zman, I noticed a “squadron” of a half dozen or so ultra-light aircraft travelling in the vicinity of North Sugarloaf (Zealand area). There was no convenient spot to pull over to get a photograph. I’m fairly certain they were ultra-lights, and not hang-gliders. But it makes little difference since I’d have the same questions regardless.

So, in talking about this with some friends, we wondered whether there were any regulations governing the flight of such aircraft over the WMNF?

And also, we wondered if the WMNF “owns” the air above the forest, and if so, then how far up does the ownership extend?

If this topic has previously been discussed in this Forum, then Moderators, please just delete this thread, or whatever.

 

[Trail Bandit]

I think that aircraft of all types are restricted to fly more than 500 feet from any person, building, or vehicle. Over congested areas, which are marked on the airplane charts, they must be above 1000 feet. National parks and wilderness areas have a 2000 foot rule, but I think it is requested, and not mandatory. If it is important, I can look it up. Note, 500 feet above the White Mountains would be dangerous in any airplane because of the strong up and down drafts. In an ultra light, unless it was a dead calm day, you would be asking for it. My memory says that there is also some rule about canyon rims and mountain tops. Again I can look it up if you want.

 

[J&J]

We also saw the same ultralight's on Friday 8/14 at 7:14pm. We saw a total of six of them. They must have taken off from the Twin Mountain airport. June was preparing nacho's and saw one just pop up out of nowhere, then two, then three until we could see all six. There were very calm wind conditions.

We thought it was kind of neat. There were also some crows flying by at the same time and they were probably wondering what the heck those things were.

 

[Dr. Dasypodidae]

Hey, that's a pretty cool view out your picture window, J&J!

 

[Trail Bandit]

Those are powered parachutes. They are a lot of fun on a calm day. Everything happens at about 25 MPH. Add power, you go up, and reduce power, you go down. If the engine dies, you will land soon at about 25 MPH. They are definately no good on windy, or gusty days. Note, that is a great photo.

 

[1HappyHiker]

John & June, thanks for posting the photo. I’m glad someone got a snapshot. As you said “it was kind of neat” to see this!

Trail Bandit, thanks for the offer to look up the FAA regs that pertain to this, but that’s not necessary. I was just mildly interested in whether there was some sort of regulation governing this type of activity, and also slightly curious how far WMNF ownership extends into the atmosphere above the forest.

 

[David Metsky]

Air rights go up to space, with exceptions. But this is federal land, so the government pretty much owns all the air rights over the national forest.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1117/can-i-declare-a-no-flight-zone-over-my-house

 

[peakbagger]

There are couple of powered parachutes based out of the Gorham NH airport. They were flying around most of the weekend in the area.

 

[1HappyHiker]

Air rights go up to space, with exceptions. But this is federal land, so the government pretty much owns all the air rights over the national forest.

http://www.straightdope.com/columns/read/1117/can-i-declare-a-no-flight-zone-over-my-house

Thanks for the input Dave . . . much appreciated!

 

[bobandgeri]

We see them a few times each Summer - they go right over the campground - feelslike an invasion at times. J&J - great photo!

 

[sardog1]

Some federal Wilderness Areas prohibit operation of aircraft below a minimum altitude. I recall the BWCA as 4000 feet. I think the regs are specific to each Area. I don't have time right now for more research, sorry.

 

[Trail Bandit]

For those who really care, the true scoop is to be found at:

http://www.fs.fed.us/r10/tongass/districts/admiralty/packcreek/AC91-36d.pdf

2000 feet is recomended so that there won't be so many complaints.

 

[brianW]

We used to go camping at Sacco River Campground in N. Conway when i was a teen. There were a few times that an ultra-light club would be there. have no idea if this club is still active.

 

[walker]

More info then you need on flying the Whites

Almost all the White Mountain National Forest (from just east of the Prez Range to VT border) in covered under a "Military Operations Area". A MOA is defines as "airspace established outside Class A airspace to separate or segregate certain nonhazardous military activities from IFR (Instrument Flying Rules) Traffic and to identify for VFR (Visual Flying Rules) traffic where these activities are conducted."

This includes "Yankee One MOA" which covers from 9000 ft agl (above ground level) an above, and (the more important and relevant) "Yankee Two MOA" which covers from 100 ft agl.

These notices go out as needed. If I was flying one of these little paragliding powered machines pilots, I would keep an eye out for any notice.

I think we've all seen or heard some sort of military aircraft screaming thru the Whites. They like to line up on the missle sitting in the Warren common and practice bomb runs. They also practice with their "terrain following radar" thru the valleys. Those are to ones that scare the hell out of me. They come out of no-where.

AHH...The price of freedom.

Live Free or Hike .....Walker

PS COOL PICS!!!

 

[1HappyHiker]

Thank You

Trail Bandit, and Walker: Many thanks for posting the details from the FAA and MOA that pertain to aircraft operations within the WMNF area. Very interesting and much appreciated!

 

[DrewKnight]

Almost all the White Mountain National Forest (from just east of the Prez Range to VT border) in covered under a "Military Operations Area"...

I can vouch for that, Walker... we see A-10s doing low-altitude training all the time in Waterville Valley. I always assumed it's a reasonable Afghanistan analog. You haven't lived till you've been at 3800 feet on a ski trail, looking down on a pair of A-10s, a few hundred feet away and a couple hundred feel below (maybe 100 feet off the deck), ripping along at maybe 350 knots.

The thought of an ultralight mixing it up with those guys -- or even their wakes -- doesn't do much for one's digestion.